Files On-Demand for macOS QA

[Ankita Kirti]

Hello there! 

2.24.22 UPDATE: We've been listening to your feedback, and we've made some design changes. We're releasing a new version that addresses the most common themes and makes it easier to achieve the previous experience. Please read the latest blog post for more details.

Two weeks ago, we posted an update about Files On-Demand for macOS and have received overwhelming feedback from the community. We have spent a lot of time reading your comments and concerns to understand how we can improve your experience on macOS. To address some of the common issues and doubts we have updated the blog with a FAQ. If you still have more queries feel free to reach out to the team directly on this thread. 

Thank you for your constant support and partnership!

Team OneDrive 

@Jack Nichols

@gacarini 

@Carter_MSFT 

[#2]

I agree 100%, and it's nice to see that you named DEVONthink there. I also use this program with indexed files that are in my OneDrive folder, and I am very nervous about something going wrong. Do you have any information/suggestions about dealing with this issue in DEVONthink?

Also, what exactly is the situation with other Cloud services i.e. Dropbox? I have read that they will also experience problems, esp. with Monterrey 12.3, but do you know if other cloud storage/sync providers have developed solutions to this?

Thanks!

@dario_s 

[#3]

@YaYaTurre There has recently been a thread at DEVONtechnologies' forum about the impact that the changed behaviour of OneDrive may have on DEVONthink if you are indexing files. DT's development team does not consider this to be a significant issue currently as they have mechanisms in place to detect broken paths to files but there is no definite official stance on this yet. The thread is on community forums here.

Most of my databases have imported files (except for one database, which also indexes files in OneDrive and which has been fine so far), so if you are concerned about this, for the time being, you may consider switching to importing instead of indexing files. However, I don't think you would lose any files indexed in DEVONthink, and everything will probably be fine, should anything happen, when you fix/update the path to indexed files. The worst that can (probably) happen is that the files would be unavailable to DT until "downloaded" from OD's cache again.

However, I agree that the new OD behaviour results in an uncomfortable uncertainty if you just want to make sure your files are local and available to all the apps you may be using.

Dropbox is currently in beta with the Apple Silicon optimised client, and they have said that they will have more information on the impact of macOS 12.3 and File Provider when the next beta rolls out in March. 

Google Drive currently works fine, as it does not rely on deprecated Kernel extensions, so it may not be impacted by changes (this remains to be seen). Still, it's 'all or nothing' there as the new client has lost the selective sync ability when it was released last year, so you either use file streaming (= files on demand) or sync everything to the Mac (you cannot select just a couple of folders).

However, there also seem to be issues around Spotlight and indexing; see this on Google Cloud Community forums. The way I understand this, this impacts primarily files that are streamed and not available locally, similar to current OneDrive issues. I have not been actively using Google Drive for a couple of years now, but I have just tested it in the past week and Spotlight seems to be indexing and finding files that have been mirrored locally i.e. downloaded to the Mac.

[#4]

Hi@dario_s!

Thanks so much for your detailed and extremely helpful reply. I really appreciate it. Good luck with everything!

/YaYaTurre

[#5]

I just installed Mac OS 12.2.1 update. After already struggling through the recent changes I was frustrated to see that OneDrive required setup again. I didn't notice at the time as I clicked through, but OneDrive did NOT default to the previous location (an external hard drive), instead pointing to the internal hard drive. I thought files which were "pinned" to use your internal term, were no longer pinned and selected ALWAYS KEEP ON DEVICE for the folder. It started to load up the internal drive. I realized the issue, paused the sync, unlinked the account and the started again pointing to the correct folder. How do I remove, or do I even attempt to remove ANY files that were downloaded to the internal hard drive? I'm on a Mac mini, is the best way to just pull the ethernet and disable wifi after my files appear to be synchronized, and see what's still there to ensure I have my files?

As with the many users reading the "Inside the new files on-demand experience..." post I am very frustrated with this experience. I understand the process needed to change. The communication should have been in the app, not on a blog few might have seen. We all make mistakes, if you learn from this mess I will continue to support you.

[#6]

Incredible.
So I noticed that OneDrive decided to remove all my local files .. and replace them with "on demand" access. I'm flabbergasted by the combination of stupidity and temerity to delete my LOCAL files. Now, when I take my laptop with me ... THERE ARE NOT FILES ON IT. A Challenger-level disaster of decision-making on MS part.

Please return the Preference option to turn off global "On Demand". Let us have control of our files.

Best.

[#7]

@Ankita Kirti 

@Jack Nichols

@gacarini 

@Carter_MSFT 

I have run some tests. As I understand reading what @Jack Nichols has written in the post explaining everything, the Files on-demand experience used now in OneDrive uses Apple’s File Provider platform, a new api offered by the OS that is replacing an older kernel extension that OneDrive was previously using. Isn't this the same api used by iCloud Drive to maintain the syncing of its contents on macOS with the cloud? Then why does iCloud Drive offer a seamless experience and isn't affecting the indexing of the Spotlight search service on macOS for files stored on it from other devices?

This just looks to me like a very poor implementation of the solution by Microsoft.

Just run a short test if you want to try this:

- Create any text document on iPhone and save it to iCloud Drive (a Word document works fine). 

- After this go to the Mac and use Spotlight to search for a word inside that document. As you can see Spotlight shows you the created document on the results. It is not only indexing the document by filename without any problems but also its contents.

Try to do the same with OneDrive and the process fails miserably.

I have set the whole OneDrive folder to Always keep on this device. If all the files are already been downloaded to a cache, why isn't OneDrive just transferring them to the OneDrive root folder automatically so Spotlight can index them properly? The files are clearly in the local disk already, this is easy to see disconnecting the Mac from the network and opening any of the files marked with the cloud icon. This will be the solution to the majority of the problems described on this thread: Indexing of file contents by Spotlight, Quicklook and letting backup programs do their work on the local OneDrive folder.

[#8]

@Ankita Kirti 

If I delete a folder from the OneDrive web, the local client first removes everything from the local machine and moves it to the bin (which is fine)... and then reuploads a couple of randomly selected files and folders back to OneDrive, creating some of the deleted folders and files again, i.e. goes against the latest change by re-uploading some random files back to the cloud. So one has to again delete files locally for the change to stick.

How exactly is this normal behaviour? This is so basic that it is incredible it wasn't adequately tested and caught early in development. Is this an alpha version? Windows Live Mesh worked better than that.

(More of a rhetorical question as issues raised in this thread are apparently not addressed, there are only Qs here and not many As. Not that I care particularly anymore, as after using and loving OneDrive for years and tinkering with it for the past two weeks in an attempt to make it work, I have finally simply downloaded everything off the web and moved to a different provider.)

[#9]

I just need two things. The ability to turn off - files on demand. The ability to turn off - it asking me if I'm sure I want to delete every time I delete.

[#10]

@Ankita Kirti @Jack Nichols @gacarini @Carter_MSFT Where are you? Why have you all gone silent?

[#11]

@Ankita Kirti Why is this thread titled QA? Where are the As?

[#12]

We're actively reviewing feedback and are aware of the difficulties some users are experiencing with the recent update. We working as quickly as possible to resolve these issues. We will share an update soon.

[#13]

It's nice to finally have the sense of being “heard”, but it would have been nicer if it'd been *before* the disaster.

It's almost egregious that you weren't aware of your users' opinion of file-on-demand considering the number of times I for one have reported issues with OneDrive since the disastrous and frankly *disrespectful* setup process that won't allow a user to choose which folders to sync and to deactivate files-on-demand. Or it wasn't considered important because, you know, users?
Let's hope while you're at it you FINALLY address the ressource hog that it is, ~200% processor at the slightest action, and the ONLY app that makes my fans go bonkers, all. the. time. And oh, has it been reported…

[#14]

I have a support ticket open on issues with OneDrive. Doing my part to make sure the issues I hit are being worked there too. They also directed me to give my feedback here.

That being said: I sync close to 40 sharepoint sites to my local machine. I regularly use CLI and other tools to examine and process data spread across those sites. I have used these for backup (Mac Time machine saved me more than once where a Teams site had data deleted by someone else and we did not notice for six months). I have teams sites where I only sync a portion of the site.

The recent changes have done the following:
- Orphaned old sync'd directories.
- This broke scripts and tools looking for another path
- The new file locations did not preserve what FoD settings I had selectively turned on
- This broke Citrix functionality since the citrix client cannot see ~/Library via their client.
- I wasn't even offered the option to migrate current syncs
- There doesn't appear to be any cli to manage what is or isn't sync so at least if we wanted to maintain our config we could. e.g. I have twice been asked to delete the OneDrive client(losing all 40 teams sites and sync settings), only to have to re-create them again. There is no script I can run to re-restore syncs.
- Since the upgrade(and I am running the latest according to tech support), anytime I use Excel, Powerpoint or Word, the OneDrive CPU process goes bonkers using 300% CPU. It got so bad I wrote software just to graph it misbehaving so I could show that data on my tech support tickets. I have observed it drive my Mac load average over 50 before too.

I am running on a fully updated 2019 Macbook Pro w/ 32GB of RAM.

[#15]

This is now getting ridiculous. WE USE THE FINDER TO MANIPULATE FILES. You assume now that we don't. What we do in the finder is assumed to be the master.

For anyone at Microsoft, try this:

Create a file, X.
Create a file, Y.
Delete X.
Change name of file Y to X.
This Fails (!!!) and says it can't edit file created by another user.
What you are left with is the original file X and NO file Y! It has gone, disappeared!

This by the way is a common case for me. File X is created by a script. I change it's name (usually to add 'EDITED' in the name).

What is going on, this doesn't even work for the basics?

[#16]

Hullo Microsoft. I have seen a lot of discussion about this with people not happy about files on demand. My experience shows me it still works. Maybe I haven't dug deep enough.

I don't care where the files are as long as my staff can access them.

However my MAJOR problem is my SharePoint is now broken because of file names exceeding the limit on my MacBook. This was working in OS 12.2 with OneDrive 22.002.0103.0004 (Standalone).

Now with OS 12.2.1 and OneDrive 22.012.0117.0003 when I try to sync my files I get the following error:-
A file or folder can't be uploaded because the path is too long. Please exit OneDrive, and shorten the name or path of: {"/users/john/ SharePoint name/blah blah"}
To sync your OneDrive to a different location on your Mac, click Run Setup.

OneDrive refuses to run, all files are removed and SharePoint isn't operable.

Long File names have been a problem on Windows based computers but didn't completely stop OneDrive from working. We had work arounds.

I've looked at downgrading the Mac OS (a huge pain) but then there is no guarantee the current download of OneDrive will still break.

Please assist.

[#17]

Hi,
Two issues for me (apart from how confusing the process is and how much time it cost me digging into where my files went).
I have lost all Finder metadata, colored labels and tags. They are there in the second hidden cache copy, but not in the cloud sync location.
There is really no way to know whether a file is on my computer or not? I have about 60GB of 200GB local and everything has the now meaningless cloud icon. There is no script or function to put in place anything thats on the disk? Is there any option to do something like the recursive ls with the network off to try to get the files reinstated so I can at least know which has a local copy?

[#18]

I wanted to report that my CPU utilization problems still are in OneDrive 22012.0117. They are NOT fixed.

[#19]

@Ankita Kirti @Jack Nichols @gacarini @Carter_MSFT  This nonsense has gone on too long. We need updates and solutions NOW. This can't wait another few days, weeks, months. Totally unacceptable, and frankly pretty sad from an organization of your size and virtually unlimited resources. When will all of the problems noted here be fixed? Provide a specific date.

Edit: cc'ing @Jason Moore too, Head of Product for OneDrive, since everyone else tagged here is useless.

[#20]

@rvisima We did put a post on the main blog on Tuesday, 2/15

2.15.22 UPDATE: We're actively reviewing feedback and are aware of the difficulties some users are experiencing with the recent update. We working as quickly as possible to resolve these issues. We will share an update soon.

We will post another update next week, 2/23, with some resolutions and next steps.

[#21]

@Carter_MSFT With respect: the "update" posted on 2022-02-15 was not posted as an addendum to the blog itself, but as a comment. Only a fraction of people who read any given blog read the comments, and certainly not out to 9 pages of them; those of us who were subscripted to the thread saw it. None of the thousands (if not millions) of other affected customers did.

Secondly, the comment was three days ago, said "we'll update something soon", and then there was nothing. "8 days later" is not generally considered "soon" when these issues have cost people priceless data and threatened the ability of some to remain employed.

Some of us work remotely enough there isn't and office to go in to for faster internet...and that's before you even take into consideration that some of us (such as myself) are COVID-vulnerable. What is the expectation here? Risk our lives to go somewhere full of people just to get enough internet to un[redacted] your [redacted]-up? With only a "hold your shorts" after _weeks_ of nothing, and then finding out days later that it will be at least another week for additional info?

Look, I work on a product management team myself. And I've done my time in product marketing as well. I honestly do get what the Onedrive team is going through right now, and how much the associated threads have almost certainly become a multi-tentacled box of nightmares for all the community staffs assigned to keep the box of cats from being too chaotic.

But, again, with all due respect, the customer communication regarding these issues has been bad enough to make a whole new textbook out of.

Please just tell us which of our concerns you intend to address, and give us rough timelines for them. If you, for example, are not going to resolve the "streaming files is the way we are going to do things and you will like it, the end" approach, then have the respect for your customers to tell us that, and tell us that right now.  That at least allows us to go to our IT teams, present the problem, ask for solutions, and if we have to, start finding alternative employment.

Don't leave us hanging. That's a [redacted] move, bro.