Forum Discussion
Files On-Demand for macOS QA
Hello there!
2.24.22 UPDATE: We've been listening to your feedback, and we've made some design changes. We're releasing a new version that addresses the most common themes and makes it easier to achieve the previous experience. Please read the latest blog post for more details.
Two weeks ago, we posted an update about Files On-Demand for macOS and have received overwhelming feedback from the community. We have spent a lot of time reading your comments and concerns to understand how we can improve your experience on macOS. To address some of the common issues and doubts we have updated the blog with a FAQ. If you still have more queries feel free to reach out to the team directly on this thread.
Thank you for your constant support and partnership!
Team OneDrive
152 Replies
I have run some tests. As I understand reading what Jack_Nichols has written in the post explaining everything, the Files on-demand experience used now in OneDrive uses Apple’s File Provider platform, a new api offered by the OS that is replacing an older kernel extension that OneDrive was previously using. Isn't this the same api used by iCloud Drive to maintain the syncing of its contents on macOS with the cloud? Then why does iCloud Drive offer a seamless experience and isn't affecting the indexing of the Spotlight search service on macOS for files stored on it from other devices?
This just looks to me like a very poor implementation of the solution by Microsoft.
Just run a short test if you want to try this:
- Create any text document on iPhone and save it to iCloud Drive (a Word document works fine).
- After this go to the Mac and use Spotlight to search for a word inside that document. As you can see Spotlight shows you the created document on the results. It is not only indexing the document by filename without any problems but also its contents.
Try to do the same with OneDrive and the process fails miserably.
I have set the whole OneDrive folder to Always keep on this device. If all the files are already been downloaded to a cache, why isn't OneDrive just transferring them to the OneDrive root folder automatically so Spotlight can index them properly? The files are clearly in the local disk already, this is easy to see disconnecting the Mac from the network and opening any of the files marked with the cloud icon. This will be the solution to the majority of the problems described on this thread: Indexing of file contents by Spotlight, Quicklook and letting backup programs do their work on the local OneDrive folder.
- Incredible.
So I noticed that OneDrive decided to remove all my local files .. and replace them with "on demand" access. I'm flabbergasted by the combination of stupidity and temerity to delete my LOCAL files. Now, when I take my laptop with me ... THERE ARE NOT FILES ON IT. A Challenger-level disaster of decision-making on MS part.
Please return the Preference option to turn off global "On Demand". Let us have control of our files.
Best. - I just installed Mac OS 12.2.1 update. After already struggling through the recent changes I was frustrated to see that OneDrive required setup again. I didn't notice at the time as I clicked through, but OneDrive did NOT default to the previous location (an external hard drive), instead pointing to the internal hard drive. I thought files which were "pinned" to use your internal term, were no longer pinned and selected ALWAYS KEEP ON DEVICE for the folder. It started to load up the internal drive. I realized the issue, paused the sync, unlinked the account and the started again pointing to the correct folder. How do I remove, or do I even attempt to remove ANY files that were downloaded to the internal hard drive? I'm on a Mac mini, is the best way to just pull the ethernet and disable wifi after my files appear to be synchronized, and see what's still there to ensure I have my files?
As with the many users reading the "Inside the new files on-demand experience..." post I am very frustrated with this experience. I understand the process needed to change. The communication should have been in the app, not on a blog few might have seen. We all make mistakes, if you learn from this mess I will continue to support you. Having used OneDrive for years, I do have to say I'm just sad and disappointed with the current state of things for OneDrive on the Mac after spending the past two weeks trying to figure out how to rework all my workflows that were heavily relying on OneDrive, as well as trying to explain to several less tech-savvy friends what was happening to OneDrive on their Macs, where their files are and what to do from now on.
Apple-mandated changes aside — as other cloud services will have to deal with them as well — this rollout was disastrously poorly communicated, and some changes which seem to be pure Microsoft decisions (like files on demand not being optional anymore) break so many workflows that it is simply incredible this was not properly and thoroughly tested before rollout. This feels like it has not been tested at all in real-life professional scenarios.
These decisions have led to a mess with a number of other bits of software, including e.g. Cryptomator (which needs encrypted files to reside locally), DEVONthink (which so far works fine with indexed files being on OneDrive, but leads to an inherently risky and potentially dangerous setup if one can not guarantee that they will always be available offline), and most of all any backup software (as one is no longer guaranteed local backups include all files as they may not have been available locally when backup ran — I fail to see how corporate customers will be happy with that state of things).
I don't feel like leaving OneDrive for Google Drive, Dropbox or iCloud, but then again, the current setup is all but reassuring when it comes to file availability and file integrity. It's a mess, who knows what's online, offline, or somewhere in-between, and I've found several corrupted images on the local drive that were otherwise fine in the cloud, leading me to believe there is something seriously wrong with the way OneDrive is syncing files now and making them available to macOS.
I have two M365 subscriptions, a personal and a business one, mostly for the fact that OneDrive was so crucial to my workflows and was such a great deal as part of the 365 subscription.I agree 100%, and it's nice to see that you named DEVONthink there. I also use this program with indexed files that are in my OneDrive folder, and I am very nervous about something going wrong. Do you have any information/suggestions about dealing with this issue in DEVONthink?
Also, what exactly is the situation with other Cloud services i.e. Dropbox? I have read that they will also experience problems, esp. with Monterrey 12.3, but do you know if other cloud storage/sync providers have developed solutions to this?
Thanks!
YaYaTurre There has recently been a thread at DEVONtechnologies' forum about the impact that the changed behaviour of OneDrive may have on DEVONthink if you are indexing files. DT's development team does not consider this to be a significant issue currently as they have mechanisms in place to detect broken paths to files but there is no definite official stance on this yet. The thread is on https://discourse.devontechnologies.com/t/changing-onedrive-behaviour-watch-out-if-indexing/69002.
Most of my databases have imported files (except for one database, which also indexes files in OneDrive and which has been fine so far), so if you are concerned about this, for the time being, you may consider switching to importing instead of indexing files. However, I don't think you would lose any files indexed in DEVONthink, and everything will probably be fine, should anything happen, when you fix/update the path to indexed files. The worst that can (probably) happen is that the files would be unavailable to DT until "downloaded" from OD's cache again.
However, I agree that the new OD behaviour results in an uncomfortable uncertainty if you just want to make sure your files are local and available to all the apps you may be using.
Dropbox is currently in beta with the Apple Silicon optimised client, and https://help.dropbox.com/installs-integrations/desktop/macos-12-monterey-support that they will have more information on the impact of macOS 12.3 and File Provider when the next beta rolls out in March.
Google Drive currently works fine, as it does not rely on deprecated Kernel extensions, so it may not be impacted by changes (this remains to be seen). Still, it's 'all or nothing' there as the new client has lost the selective sync ability when it was released last year, so you either use file streaming (= files on demand) or sync everything to the Mac (you cannot select just a couple of folders).
However, there also seem to be issues around Spotlight and indexing; see https://www.googlecloudcommunity.com/gc/Workspace-Discussions/Mac-Spotlight-not-indexing-Google-Drive-files-in-desktop/m-p/167774/highlight/true#M662. The way I understand this, this impacts primarily files that are streamed and not available locally, similar to current OneDrive issues. I have not been actively using Google Drive for a couple of years now, but I have just tested it in the past week and Spotlight seems to be indexing and finding files that have been mirrored locally i.e. downloaded to the Mac.
- After this update to on-demand files, Onedrive for MacOs seems to be useless for me as a photographer. I've lost access to all my RAW files, pictures and cannot access them from Adobe application like Bride, Lightroom and PS including Final Cut Pro.
I know, they are located in Library currently, but how to change my workflow and access my files when using Adobe or other software?
Any advice?- Welcome to the club, check out all my post. Easiest and best solution, pCloud.
- After 10 days of trying alternative solutions for me as a photographer, I found that pCloud, MEGA and Tresorit make GREAT solutions that actually work. I went with pCloud and cannot wait for my Microsoft365 subscription to end.
But ALL of those worked, and good. They also all work in a different way in regards to Files on Demand as I asked each of their support teams. They won't be impacted by this change.
THIS IS THE WAY
- I thought I somehow screwed up. But no, now I am aware that you made changes with little or no warning. You have no idea the amount of pain this has cause, Multiple installations of your app. Redownloading information I require on my laptop. I really feel like I've been kicked in the nuts. Keep it up, I won't need a vasectomy.
You made a promise to answer more queries about the OneDrive changes here. I can see a lot of folks struggling with the new experience, as well as a few genuine bugs being reported. I can't see a Microsoft reply to this thread since @Jack Nichols about 5 days ago. Could you pay us the respect of either replying to the questions, or letting us know that you're listening but making changes so answering questions wouldn't be sensible at the moment?
Yes, the Microsoft team are notable by their absence. Sadly I suspect that they have decided that we are the ones "who are using it wrong" and have completely stopped engaging with us.
I would like to think I could be wrong, but there are no signs to support that. MS seems to have decided that OneDrive is now a pure remote experience, and that use-cases such as traveling, tertiary backup and intermittent or expensive internet are not cases they want to support.
I am having to move all my files - my Cyber Insurance insists I have a third-party (non-Microsoft) backup of what is on my (paid, business) MS365 and I cannot now do that, so I am having to move everything.
I used to back up everything using Acronis but I cannot now do that.
Y'all, it's been a moment since there was communication from the Microsoft side. Is there a timeline to un**bleep** this, or is the official decision that our needs are irrelevant. I'd really like to know what you folks are planning to address, because that has bearing on how I engage with my internal IT teams regarding supporting a distributed workforce.
Lack of communication regarding the issues that have been surfaced will be interpreted as choosing not to address those issues.This is a quote from your previous article posted here by Jack_Nichols https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/forums/editpage/board-id/OneDriveBlog/message-id/2651.
I am now posting here as you appear to have moved the discussion into this new thread.
Will this work with local file indexing (e.g. Apple's Spotlight)?Yes. Spotlight indexes everything that is in your sync root, but note that Spotlight will not fetch (or hydrate) files that are dataless. If you are looking for something in Spotlight that could only be read from the full file (such as image EXIF data), only fully hydrated files will be indexed.
Spotlight will not index our cache folder.
Oh, I see. After years of OneDrive having an excellent Mac client, you Mr. Jack_Nichols and your team decided to basically render it useless in one sweep with the snap of your fingers. Speak about a Thanos delirium complex!
You have just decided to completely kill:
- Spotlight integration of any file inside OneDrive. Indexing of only names in 2022 is completely useless. Content indexing is paramount for a search service like Spotlight in any platform.
- QuickLook integration of any file inside OneDrive. Together with Spotlight you just killed another key function of macOS as now you have to open every single file inside OneDrive if you want to quicklook at it from Finder.
- Having to manually click on any new OneDrive folder added from another device and mark it as "Always Keep on This Device" is such a joke, this completely kills the synchronization workflow from all your customers that need to access their data offline (basically everyone traveling that uses more than one device with OneDrive).
I have Dropbox installed in my Mac and it has none of this nonsense. Many of the other cloud storage services have also no problem keeping their content synced offline for Spotlight to index it as it should.
Anybody here knows if it is possible to include this cache folder in the Spotlight index to get back part of the lost integration for full content indexing?
- Just so. I have ten years worth of Word documents that I can no longer content search. This "update" is utterly unjustifiable degradation.
- I've found a slight 'fix' to this 'offline' debacle. I first did this - 'open a Terminal window and type "ls - alR ~/OneDrive" (or the path to your OneDrive)' and then clicked the Cloud icon of the folder to fix. Then in Finder sitting at an unexpanded OneDrive root folder, press Option/Right Arrow. This fully expands the subfolder tree, and this initially seemed to 'work', in that I got an accurate folder total size. The only issue - files subsequently copied into the folder are reverted back to 'On Demand'. It seems this is in fact intended behaviour by Microsoft,
I well recall when Apple gave the middle finger to Pro a few years back users its Mac range slipped to single figures, my close friend took direct part in subsequent QA discussions and Apple reversed course. My IT company in Melb. AU sold almost 10yrs ago had well over 4k SMB and Mid customers over 25yrs and it's people like those on this forum and I who are the influencers of many - I've been inundated with queries and so far I'm saying sit tight.
That said, I've watched closely the replies above from MS Team Ankita Kirti Jack_Nichols gacarini Carter_MSFT and it seems there is silence on whether 'On Demand' is here to stay, and local or offline files gone. I sincerely hope that's not the case, however if it is then this is moving into Class Action territory and/or Consequential Damages for any prolonged outage or God forbid if data is lost. Not me, but I can fore-see where this might go.
I get it that MS want sticky customers, who doesn't - but this is not the way to do it.!!!
Taking away MY RIGHT to use and backup MY DATA on MY DEVICES is egregious and unconscionable, and arrogant beyond belief.
