Mar 23 2017 06:44 PM
I migrate companies to SharePoint Online for a living. The biggest hangup my users have after their migration is adopting a new workflow for getting files INTO SharePoint. It's unnecisarily complex. Let me ilustrate my point: (Edit - reposting since my original post disappeared)
User A gets an email with multiple attachments in Outlook 2016. They want to place the attachments in their team's SharePoint library (https://contoso.sharepoint.com/teamdocs). Their options for this are as follows:
See how hard that is? Users coming from mapped drives through on-premises SharePoint and file servers hate that new level of complexity. Below is some basic functionality that would go miles toward improving user adoption:
This was a little general to include in User Voice, but if I can condense it all into a quick blurb I'll throw links down below. Thanks for listening, hopefully the right folks find this feedback helpful! @Sean Squires?
Mar 20 2018 05:04 AM
Totally agree, this has been an challenge as long as SharePoint has existed, and that's also why most enterprises still prefer "file shares" as their main document storage. Everything else is painful, not to mention if there is a bunch of "metadata" that needs to be added to the files also.
That said, now with SharePoint Online, latest Windows 10 updates and OneDrive file on-demand, you can solve part of this challenge as follows:
- Structure documents in different libraries or team sites dependent on your information architecture and permisions requirements.
- Use OneDrive "file on demand" to synch all files in the libraries you need,
- You can now save by directly drag and drop attachment, emails ect. to the OneDrive synch folders without the need of temporary save to desktop. You can also use save as and in file explorer navigate to the OneDrive folder.
Challenges that we still need solved:
- How to tag documents with correct metadata directly in OneDrive Synch? currently you still have to log into the SharePoint Library, a bit easier with mass data tagging recently released but still need improvement.
- How to automatically Synch Libraries for Users, pr. now each end user have to manually initiate the first Synch.
Mar 20 2018 08:36 AM
On the other side, local sync of shared items should be used carefully...
For an example of the problems that could result from local sync, see http://blog.ciaops.com/2018/02/offline-file-conflicts-with-sharepoint.html
Mar 21 2018 10:12 PM - edited Mar 21 2018 10:15 PM
Paul, I totally agree! This is one of my main frustrations with SharePoint. The sooner this feature is enabled the better.
I have tried to add my SharePoint address as a Network Location and this doesn't seem to work? Is there something I need to know?
Regards
Nick
Mar 22 2018 04:32 AM
Adding SharePoint doclibs as Network Locations has never worked reliably.
You could try third-party tools, like Zee Drive (http://www.thinkscape.com/Map-Network-Drives-To-Office-365-OneDrive/).
Sep 26 2018 11:14 AM
I disagree, its never been easier to use it. If you follow the proper patterns. (I know change is tough)
1. Author, or save attachments to onedrive as a default.
- If desired, users can save to the sync folder 1st, and then open the Onedrive site to perform step 2 when ready.
2. When ready, copy the file directly from onedrive to any site or group you have access to. (using the copy or move to options in the tool bar) SUPER easy. File may be synced locally, but user never worked with it locally unless they opened the client, rather than the browser.
At that point the user should/could delete the version in their onedrive. This should be made a point for users know how to determine where they are opening a file from. That's why its just better to tell them to delete the OG file on OneDrive, or use the move option, rather than copy.
I never save anything locally. You can pretend like you are by saving to the local onedrive sync folder. (If you set that up)
All it takes is a little open minded-ness. And the acceptance that network drives are dead. Aside from a few niche applications, users should not be using local storage, or network file shares.
Nov 05 2018 03:10 PM
Joshua,
It's almost 2019, and the tech world revolves around usability. Re-read your post and tell me what about it is "easier to use."
I left a client's office today in search of a solution, and found this thread. They have email show up in their inbox, with PDFs attached, and they want to move those PDFs to a Document Library on SharePoint.
Yesterday, they could:
1. Open the attached PDF in Acrobat
2. Save As... and pick the folder on the shared drive.
What's the process now? Serious question.
Kevin
Nov 05 2018 04:53 PM
Nov 06 2018 04:58 AM
Easier is a relative term, but I see no reason why your client cannot do what you described?
You don't even "need" acrobat. (unless you want to edit the PDF)
Most of the problems I have seen with PDFs and SharePoint, are around the browser plugins for Adobe. Yes there are some versions issues, if you are using an older version of either SP or Adobe, you can face some compatibility issues. But I do not think that sort of problem is specific to SP or Adobe.
Below I pasted the URL of a SP site into the save as dialog, and then select the library I want.
No Adobe installed at all.
Nov 06 2018 05:31 AM
Thanks for the reply.
Can you tell me the result if you do that with Acrobat? Or notepad? Or Photoshop? Or anything other than the 4 or 5 Office apps it works with?
Again, the workflow was very simple:
1. Get email
2. Open attachment in attachment's native app (assume Acrobat for a PDF)
3. Identify the project
4. Navigate to the right folder on the Shared Drive and save.
Now it is:
1. Get email
2. Open attachment in attachment's native app (assume Acrobat for a PDF)
3. Identify the project
4. Save to some temporary space on the C:\ Drive
5. Navigate SharePoint to the right folder
6. Find the local file
7. Drag / upload from local to SP
8. Delete the local file
I'm looking for a valid solution that doesn't require more steps than a local server with a shared network drive for filing files, regardless of the file type.
Nov 28 2018 08:31 AM
Nov 28 2018 09:17 AM
Yes, yours is definitely a "rant." And your idea (having a file end up somewhere with some percentage of likelihood that is less than 100%) doesn't solve the problem at best, and makes new problems at worst.
We used to be able to map a network drive to a SharePoint doc library. That solved the problem, but issues with WebDAV re-broke it. Microsoft, please fix this.
If we could all "File > Save As" to SharePoint doc libraries from any app in Windows, problem solved. I'm sure this is coming some day soon. But to me, "not yet" is "not soon enough."
Nov 28 2018 10:06 AM
Nov 28 2018 10:26 AM
Azure Files is a great option for a straight on-prem file server replacement. However, it's priced separately from Office 365, and the actual cost is tricky to predict in advance. Also, afaik, it loses the collaborative features that come with Word Online / Word + SharePoint.
Office Aps have File > Save As => Doc Library
I just need it in the Windows "File Save As" dialog.
Nov 28 2018 12:41 PM - edited Nov 28 2018 12:44 PM
So by that logic, if a user has been driving a '57 Chevy or an old VW van, with a column shifter, for the past 30 years, that they should/would have no problems getting in a 2018 car? But is that person better off driving the new car? Certainly safer.... Airbags, antilock brakes, hell power brakes and steering.... etc... etc... A person in that situation could very well need some extra instruction on how to use the new car. But no substantial adjustment would be made to the car to accommodate, the user would just have to learn. A company that will not train users on new tech, I have no sympathy for...
Should we revert cell phones back to wired phones because my grandmother can't figure out how to use a touch screen? She even has trouble with a flip phone. It is very much different from what she originally learn how to use. Good reason to not use it? For her perhaps, but that then limits her ability to communicate to just at home. There is nothing really stopping anyone from continuing to use a file server. But it has its limits.
The old POTS phone system was far more reliable, and easy to use for phone calls... But not so much for data transfer.... But we should definitely stuck with it by your logic, because everyone knows how to use it, and I never liked the whole router thing anyway. I am good with buffering video for hours and hours.
File servers are old tech, they are less "securable", less available, less manageable, less redundant (out of the box) But yes, for the most part, rock solid. So is a '57 Chevy. I would love to own a '57 Chevy, but I would not use it as my daily driver.
It is our job as technology advocates to guide companies into the future, some of that is difficult and challenging. But if I have a client that insists on the "old way", I have no problem obliging, I build what they want, and move on. Giving my attention and focus to clients that understand the need to move forward and innovate. You will never beat your competition by doing things the same way you always have in the past. That does come with an inherent contract that the new way must provide value that the old way does not. Better data, faster service for customers, etc, etc....
Let just go back to paper files, and cabinets. Really that is where your logic leads. (IMO)
If you want to make the product better, use the user voice tool. If people agree with you, it could happen. If not, you need to take a hint, and/or try another solution.
Dec 05 2018 03:38 PM
Dec 05 2018 04:38 PM
Sorry about that, I know I come off snarky, I probably should not have included the last part. Just trying to make a point. And I am a terrible writer.
I find that with most clients, they form a similar opinion, if not provided with a better POV. Executives care about things like the big Azure data center outage in South Central. That can give a false since that a Service like Azure is not safe. But when you bring it to them from a different point of view.... You can in fact turn heads. You ask that exec, in what other circumstance could you have your datacenter struck by lightning, evacuated, nearly burn to the ground, but yet you have 99-100% of your data back up and available in 24hrs or less. Plus getting credits for the outage.
Don't get me wrong, that was terrible, it just could have been much worse had it been a standard, datacenter from the past. (Sure its possible in a regular data center, only if you had spent the time and money to prepare for it)
It just drives me up the wall when users scape goat technology as too hard. When you know, if you gave them a $50 gift card and put them on a new site or app they had never used. They would figure out how to spend that $50 real quick.
You can never please everyone, but as long as you are providing value, that is all that really matters.
For the record, I second your idea to restore an old car. I prefer off road myself, I love getting away from all technology in the middle of no where. Tech is great and all, it has yet to beat nature yet. (IMO)
Good luck to you!
Dec 05 2018 06:27 PM
>> So by that logic, if a user has been driving a '57 Chevy or an old VW van, with a column shifter, for the past 30 years, that they should/would have no problems getting in a 2018 car?
Um, no.
But if for some reason, car manufacturers decided to stop making automatic transmissions, and a user needed to buy a new car, and they ended up with a manual transmission... I'd be willing to advocate for them to have an option for automatic transmission. (I drive an S4 6 speed manual, but not everyone should have to drive stick.)
I think I see the difference. I'm a software guy. I believe as software people, it's our job to make what people want and need. Maybe other people think it's their job to force feed whatever other software people have made.
Dec 05 2018 08:47 PM
No, that's not the same. No one took away the file server. As I said, it has it limits. If you accept them, then so be it. Just like a '57 Chevy. If it cannot get you to work reliably, are you going to tell your employer that you just won't buy a newer car because you don't like how they drive? Or some other subjective or perception based reason. I doubt it, you will go get something. You don't have to necessarily get rid of the Chevy. But hopefully, you see my point. (if you have enough clout to tell your boss that you will get to work when ever you feel like it, again, so be it, not the case for most)
If you work for an employer, then its your job to use the tools you have to do your job. If you don't like those tools, and your employer does not agree, find another employer that gives you the tools you think you need. If you can't find one you either go it on your own, or conform to the accepted toolset. Or you are unemployed. (or worse, would you like fries with that?)
Some things are better with age like whiskey, cheese, and wine, but not technology.
Feb 15 2019 05:20 AM