Forum Discussion
Windows 10 v1709 AMA - Why has Creators Update Fall treated creators so badly?
I'd like to know how the incomprehensible change in stylus behaviour, which severely impacts those who primarily input with pen, was ever considered a positive?
The multiple adverse effects are cropping up via user complaints, which a quick web search will reveal. Rather than provide a summary list I can illustrate the ill-thought out nature of the change using just one example.
Pen flicks and navigation has been rendered completely unusable but yet is still a component part of Windows 10. Personally I've relied on pen flicks as a productivity tool for as long as I've been a pen user - which is now over ten years. At a stroke, ironically, this feature has been broken through incompetence or neglect - either fit so take your pick.
Please provide an answer or even better a timetable for reversing this calamity.
Regards
Patrick
P.S. Any typos entirely the fault of the 2nd incomprehensible decision to replace the fully featured on-screen keyboard with a finger friendly but condensed keyboard. Doesn't the Windows 10 engineering team have any pen-centric members on board?
Please please provide an off switch for the new pen scrolling/panning feature. It breaks SO MANY things!
The work-around with having to hold the right click pen barrel button is really awful because: 1. That's supposed to open a context sensitive menu. 2. Having to hold the button means having to hold the pen differently. 3. Some Windows 10 tablet pens (such as the Samsung Galaxy Book) do not have a right-click barrel button so in those cases many functions are actually impossible. 4. It's extremely unintuitive. Previously, I could tap & drag everything with ease... move files, rearrange start menu tiles, resize calendar appointments, drag/drop whatever. Now doing those types of things are much more difficult and much less efficient. It's a huge crutch on our workflows.
The new behavior also interferes heavily with the Wacom drivers used in Wacom pen displays, the Wacom MobileStudio Pro, and the new HP Zbook x2. Thankfully, those devices have a checkbox in the driver to disable "Windows Ink", however when the Windows Ink is in use, the new pen scrolling behavior causes major problems. For example, an easy repro scenario is to right click the address bar in Micosoft Edge using the pen's barrel button (Wacom hardware with Windows Ink on)... The whole system will become unresponsive after that right click. I've reproduced this on 2 devices as well as a workstation with a pen display plugged in. It affects other things too like not being able to move objects in InDesign, causing hangs in Adobe Bridge, etc.
I've also got a few tablets that use the Microsoft N-Trig pens and those have issues as well, but do not have the advantage of being able to switch off "Windows Ink". It's really made the pen interface into a terrible user experience.
There are a http://pocketnow.com/2017/07/29/windows-10-fall-creators-update in back in July when this new behavior was first being introduced to Windows Insiders. Some of those were fixed somewhat, but it still shouldn't have been released without an off switch. It should have been an Opt-In feature I think.
I hope an off switch will be available before the "Current Branch for Business" gets the Fall Creators Update!
Here's some more feedback hub links:
https://aka.ms/Cth1bj
https://aka.ms/Nm2ba8
https://aka.ms/Senlr6
https://aka.ms/U7g3yd
https://aka.ms/Rx0k5l
https://aka.ms/L3qw8q
This one is very important: "Always provide off switch for terrible new features"
https://aka.ms/Fg7wme
69 Replies
- I would just like to add my voice that this update has completely destroyed my ability to use the CAD software my company uses. We don't use flicks but the pens dragging behaviour makes drawing almost completely impossible. At least this thread seems a bit more positive. On https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-touch/pen-scrolling-is-inconsistent-and-breaking-some/7950fdb1-a7a6-44ff-9119-1c5bdf8812c1?messageId=d03db2fc-96de-43a9-94a7-9187c27a5f5b
we are just being told "it must be our pen" or "roll back to an older version of windows"I use the music notation Finale and the pen supplied an extra level of precision. Now I cannot right click because the button is for selection only. What were they thinking? Oh right, they weren't...
I'd also like to voice my opinion about this issue as well. I wrecked my brain trying to figure out why my pen was working like the way it did. I thought it was some type of driver bug or something. I'm a fan of new and innovative experiences, but this has been the worse for me. I'm having the same exact issues as the other users are. I also honestly think it would've been genius to implement a "turn off" functionality for those who desire preference in the name of customization. Please Windows, let us have some customization where we can turn this thing off.
Happy Holidays
Hi, I have the very same issue. But for me it's much worse than just being unable to select text on a webpage.
After the Fall Creators update pen behaves not like it should be. Instead of the precise selection tool it became just another finger. I can't quickly select text on a webpage by just clicking and dragging. I can't select files in file explorer the same way anymore.
But all of this just fades away comparing to how pen now behaves in Adobe Illustrator. It seams that very often Illustrator register pen input like touch input making it impossible to do any kind of precise work without zooming in a lot.
Here is the video I've captured https://youtu.be/EC7wFT81WN4
As you can see, first I'm trying to select a line with the pen with no luck in 100% tries. After 0:40 I've switched to touchpad and the line is selected in 100% of tries. It's ridiculous that i have to use touchpad for drawing. And it is very crucial for me, because it's my job which I can't do anymore. I'm using pen enabled devices from the times Steve Jobs was not back at Apple yet. When I saw the first iPad presentation I laughed because of him saying that no one needs a pen and so I was using only Windows tablets. But now I see the things are going around: iPad has a pen, and my Surface Book looks like it does not. I'm not even saying about promises to bring the New Surface Pen's tilt support and Surface Dial on-screen functionality. I have no hope for it any more. But I have not expected that I will loose the basic pen functionality. Why I even bothered buying all this stuff if it does not work?
Pen issues are not only ones I have after updating my Surface Book but it will take to much of time and space to describe them all. I've already posted some feedback, but no luck - issues are never fixed. To resolve some issues I've done "Reset this PC" without saving any files, but instead of fixing issues I've got couple more. I've installed latest driver pack for the Surface Book, I've tried troubleshooting from Settings app. Changed batteries in the pen. Tried installing WinTab drivers, but uninstalled them, because you can already find reports of them not working correctly. I even tried to use another pen (I have every generation lying around). Nothing helped.
This is the question of life and death, because now I can't do my job with the Surface Book
Here is the link to the feedback https://aka.ms/Q7t2ad
Just want to add myself to the list of Wacom tablet users who are suffering since switching to Windows 10.
Symptoms like:
Can't drag and drop between windows
Can't right-click drag (for instance when you want to move instead of copy file)
Sometimes my cursor turns into a gigantic 2-headed arrow when I hover over the edge of a window.
Can't select text, neither body text nor browser URL bar text
In some field input windows, a handwriting box pops up
Right click on the desktop produces a circle/ring that appears briefly
I'm sure there are more that I can't recall at this time, but these are the biggies. Didn't have ANY of these issues in Windows 7, once I configured it properly.
I'm 94 hours into troubleshooting a week old installation on a new PC build, numerous issues. The stylus issue is minor compared to some major issues, like hardware not working at all, but is a constant (and sometimes dangerous) annoyance that causes me to accidentally move folders or files sometimes due to this quirky behavior.
Hi,
Pen flicks (Windows component) was used as an indisputable example to ensure I could avoid being fobbed off with "it's just a question of the third party software maker needing to update their drivers".
The negative impact this unfathomable change has caused has also stopped me using my software editing suite, which is part of my job, so you're not alone.
I've not yet received a reply from the Windows Ink team but I'll update here and also in the Edge forum, here;
https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/platform/issues/14277341/
where this issue is also causing a lot of anger.
- I've sent an e-mail to WindowsInk@Microsoft.com too
also i've created feedback https://aka.ms/Wpzj9h about not being able to select text on a webpage a month ago - just 11 upvotes and no reaction
Hello Patrick, I'm the GPM on the Interaction Platform team, and we're the folks who care a lot about the Pen experience in Windows. I'm sorry to hear that you are having a bad experience with Pen in Windows, and would love to hear more about your experience as well as anything you have found that we should know about. Please email us at WindowsInk@Microsoft.com so that we can dig into any issues you have encountered.
As for Pen flicks, that is a feature from that TabletPC edition of Windows. We did not remove it as there were still some users (like yourself who uses it), however, throughout the years we have started to retool the pen experience in Windows such that accelerators like flicks may no longer be useful/necessary. We would love to hear about the scenarios that you still continue to depend on pen flicks, perhaps there are additional things we can do in the navigation model that helps. Again, please email us at WindowsInk@microsoft.com.
thanks for continuing to use the Pen in Windows and help us make it better!
Hello Jerry,
Thanks for responding. I've dropped the Windows Ink team a lengthy email outlining the issues FCU has generated. I've mentioned you in despatches so hopefully I'll get a response from someone over the next few days.
The only point I wanted to take you up on was the behaviour of pen flicks following FCU. It is now uttrly impossible to use this feature full stop. What is so odd is to retain a feature called pen flicks which does not/cannot respond to a pen flick. It was this strange disconnect that I felt best represented the ill-thought through consequence of FCU on pen users rather than it being my only cause for concern.
As for using pen flicks - I use it as designed, meaning up until FCU it would be activated scores if not hundreds of times a day.
Regards
Patrick
