Forum Discussion
Calculate NPV for non regular date & amount
JoeUser2004 in the real estate company we sold units with installments over many years (8 YRS), we offer an option to the customers to change the default senario and pay large amount in advance to get an discount on the total price as shown in the attached file, so i need to make sure that i calculate it in accurate way as it has afinancial impact
hussein_elsayed wrote: ``we offer an option to the customers to change the default senario and pay large amount in advance to get an discount on the total price``
I think you want to know how to calculate the equal, but irregularly-paid payment (E6) for the second option (E8:E115) that results in the same NPV (C5, E5) as the first option (C8:C115).
And I think you want to calculate the amount of or percentage difference (E117) between the sum of the cash flows (C116, E116) for the first and second options.
But before I fully explain details and the choices you might make, I need to know: is that right?
If not, forgive me for the misdirection.
[EDIT.... In hindsight, it was. Mea culpa! I've deleted the misdirected details.]
If I am right, please explain:
1. Do you want to use a monthly cash flow model, as you do in your example Excel file?
Or do you want to use the more consise cash flow model that you presented in your original posting?
2. How did you determine the annual interest rate (B5)?
It is different from the NPV discount rate (8%) in your original posting?
3. For the original payment schedule (C8:C115), how did you determine the last payment in C105 (200,438), which differs from the other equal payments (200,411) starting in C15?
4. How did you determine the value in C2 (6,903,074)? And what purpose does it serve, if any?
It is close to, but not equal to the sum of the cash flows (C116) for the first option.
- hussein_elsayedMar 03, 2022Brass Contributor
First of all i would like to thank you for your quick reply, and let me to reply to the below points.
1. Do you want to use a monthly cash flow model, as you do in your example Excel file?
yes i need to use the monthly senario as there are irrigular dates in my attachment
Or do you want to use the more consise cash flow model that you presented in your original posting?
i just sent it to clarify the idea but the second attachement is what we are working with in my work and i think it has alot of mistakes that i dont understand it so i ask for the right way to calculate what the client can get when he pay a lage amount at the begining in accurat way
2. How did you determine the annual interest rate (B5)?
the annual rate are given as per the policy of my company
It is different from the NPV discount rate (8%) in your original posting?
yes
3. For the original payment schedule (C8:C115), how did you determine the last payment in C105 (200,438), which differs from the other equal payments (200,411) starting in C15?
calculated, to be equal with the total amount in C2
4. How did you determine the value in C2 (6,903,074)? And what purpose does it serve, if any?
According to the pricing list of units that we have in our company
It is close to, but not equal to the sum of the cash flows (C116) for the first option.
- JoeUser2004Mar 04, 2022Bronze Contributor
hussein_elsayed .... Please note that I made some significant edits (additions) to my previous response, notably to comments #4 and #5. Sorry about the late edits.
- JoeUser2004Mar 04, 2022Bronze Contributor
I have some comments and questions below.
But to answer your question..... Yes, there is one definite error and potentially another error in the NPV calculation.
Refer to the "mod" worksheet in my Excel file attachment.
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1. In C5 and E5 in the "orig" worksheet, the NPV values range does not include Mar-22 (zero). It should.I would make the following changes (see the yellow highlighted cells):
Formulas:
C5: =NPV(B5/12,C9:C114)+C7+C8
E5: =NPV(B5/12,E9:E114)+E7+E8
In effect, I moved the Apr-22 row down, and I inserted a row for Mar-22. Then I renumbered the payments.
I also made the change in the NPV formulas that is highlighed in red above.
Although the syntactic change is C113 to C114 and E113 to E114, the important semantic change is: C9 and E9 now refer to Mar-22 instead of Apr-22.
Also, now the last payments are correctly numbered 96 for the 8-year option and 60 for the 5-year option.
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2. It is not clear to me whether the NPV discount rate in C5 and E5 should be B5/12, or it should be changed to (1+B5)^(1/12) - 1.
That depends on how we should interpret the annual rate in B5.
In some countries, the annual rate is a simple rate. In that case, B5/12 is the correct monthly rate.
In other countries, the annual rate is a compounded rate. In that case, (1+B5)^(1/12) - 1 is the correct monthly rate.
(And then there is Canada. Sigh.)
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3. The required change #1 above has a consequential effect on the NPV values in C5 and E5. Also, they are no longer the same.I believe they should be.
And in fact, I believe the deferred payments for both options should be recalculated so that the NPV is 5,315,367(?), as it is in the "orig" worksheet.
(Assuming that 5,315,367 is the correct cost, excluding profit, of the property sold. Is it?)
See my comments below, notably how I believe the equal deferred payments are calculated in #4. If you agree, I can show you how to calculate them.
-----My comments and questions....
Refer to the "orig" worksheet (yours) in the attached Excel file.
4. I wrote: ``how did you determine the last payment in C103 (200,438)?``hussein_elsayed wrote: ``calculated, to be equal with the total amount in C2``
Then, C103 would be =C2-SUM(C7:C102).
But that results in 200436.6, which rounds to 200,437, not 200,438.
Instead, I believe the equal deferred payments are calculated so that their NPV (plus down payment and contract payment) is the same as the "cost" of the loan (see #5 below). Thus, the equal deferred payments are 200411.656041646 and 252028.385606053.
Then, the equal deferred payment for column C is rounded down, and the last deferred payment in C103 is calculated so that, again, the NPV of the deferred payments (plus down payment and contract payment) is the same as the "cost" of the loan. Thus, the last deferred payment is indeed 200438, rounded.
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5. I wrote: ``How did you determine the value in C2 (6,903,074)?
hussein_elsayed wrote: ``According to the pricing list of units that we have in our company``
I don't know what "pricing list of units" means.
But I wonder if you are talking about financing a purchase ("loan") in accordance with Islamic law, where the agreed-upon sales price (C2) is the sum of the cost ("principal" for a non-Muslim loan) plus profit ("total interest").
You probably know (or should know) the cost. In a non-Muslim loan, that is the actual price of the property sold.
(The cost, exlcuding profit, should be the same as the NPV of the deferred payments plus the down payment and contract payment, which is calculated in C5 and E5.)
The cost will be the same for both deferred payment options (column C and column E). Note that C5 and E5 are the same.
However, the profit will vary depending on the number, schedule and amounts of the deferred payments.
Thus, I believe the "total amount" is correctly calculated in C114 and E114. They are the sum of the deferred payments plus down payment and contract payment. Note that C114 and E114 are different.
I think it is incorrect that the expected total amounts in C2 and E2 are the same. Note that E2 is merely the formula =C2.
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6. hussein_elsayed wrote: ``the annual rate are given as per the policy of my company``
I doubt that, or that explanation seems incomplete.
The annual rate in B5 is calculated. I am asking: how is it calculated?(This is mainly for my education. But it might help me help you resolve the potential issue that I noted in comment #2.)
If it is calculated by a formula, what is it, and what are the values and descriptions of any dependent cells references?
If it is derived using Solver, what is the Solver set-up, and again, what are the dependent values and descriptions?
Show all values with the precision of 15 significant digits.
IMHO, the simplest thing to do is: attach an Excel file that demonstrates how the annual rate is calculated.
I know that the value in B5 is calculated because....
The value in B5 appears to be 7.23276435473547%. I doubt that any company specifies a "finance" (interest or profit) rate with 14 percentage decimal places -- 15 significant digits, coincidentally.
Moreover, the exact value is 7.23276435473547% - 2.78E-17. That is a telltale indication of a binary calculation. It only appears to be 7.23276435473547% because of Excel's arbitrary formatting limitation.-----
7. The down payment in C7 and E7 (and probably the contract payment in C8 and E8) are calculated by a percentage of the "total amount" in C2 and E2.
That makes it difficult (impossible?) to calculate the amounts of the deferred payments, because the amount of profit in the "total amount" depends on the schedule of deferred payments. Ostensibly, that is a circular calculation.
On the contrary, I suspect that the down payment and contract payment should be a percentage of just the cost of the property, excluding profit. That would be consistent with non-Muslim loans.
As I noted above, you probably know (or should know) the cost of the property, excluding profit.
- hussein_elsayedMar 06, 2022Brass Contributor
i'd like to thank you for your greet effort to help me, and sory for being late as i was so tired the past two days.
let me clarify the steps we follow to calculate the NPV
1- the pricing list is approved price for all units including profit (inventory that contains alot of units with prices including the profit)
2- once we have the price of unit C2, and the defualt of payment plan is the culmn C that shows the client have to pay 5% down payment , contract payment is 0 and delevery payment C26 is 5% (the payment should be paid before the handingover of the unit) and the rest amount devided equaly for 8 years
3- top managment agreed that the cash discount should be 77% from the total unit price (c2*77%)
then by what if analysis i got the discount rate B5
4- the customer have an option to change the default payment plan as i mentioned earlier to get the proper discount, then he will pay large amount as an advance payment and the delivery payment is the same as the original then by what if analysis we equal the two NPV in C5 & B5 and get the new payments according to that.
i hope i clarify more than earlier and thank you in advance