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body-2148776%22%20slang%3D%22en-US%22%3E%3CP%3EWhat%20I'm%20seeing%20is%20totally%20inconsistent%20with%20Teams%20mysteriously%20working%20perfectly%20and%20being%20up%20to%20date%20on%20some%20machines%20but%20on%20others%20I%20diligently%20push%20out%20the%20machine%20wide%20installer%20each%20few%20days%20but%20the%20user%20version%20just%20never%20updates.%20I%20have%20quite%20a%20few%20where%20the%20machine%20wide%20is%201.4.00.xxx%20and%20the%20user%20is%20still%20on%201.3.0.xxx%3C%2FP%3E%3CP%3EWorse%2C%20the%20msi%20installer%20will%20occasionally%20remove%20teams%20completely%20-%20with%20no%20errors%20logged%20as%20far%20as%20I%20can%20tell.%20It%20just%20disappears.%20I%20always%20run%20the%20msi%20with%20logging%20to%20a%20file%20and%20can't%20find%20any%20indication%20of%20why%20it%20would%20have%20just%20removed%20everything%20when%20it%20should%20have%20updated.%3C%2FP%3E%3CP%3EI%20have%20all%20of%20this%20automated%2C%20so%20whenever%20a%20new%20version%20comes%20out%20I%20push%20out%20the%20msi%20to%20hundreds%20of%20machines.%20I%20do%20this%20with%20many%20many%20applications%2C%20Teams%20is%20the%20worst%20to%20deal%20with.%20Acrobat%20comes%20a%20close%20second.%3C%2FP%3E%3CP%3E%26nbsp%3B%3C%2FP%3E%3C%2FLINGO-BODY%3E%3CLINGO-SUB%20id%3D%22lingo-sub-2149993%22%20slang%3D%22en-US%22%3ERe%3A%20Microsoft%20Teams%20Release%20Processes%20-%20Why%20do%20I%20not%20see%20a%20feature%20but%20my%20colleague%20does%3F%3C%2FLINGO-SUB%3E%3CLINGO-BODY%20id%3D%22lingo-body-2149993%22%20slang%3D%22en-US%22%3E%3CP%3EHow%20come%20you%20are%20not%20just%20letting%20Teams%20update%20itself%3F%20It%20sounds%20like%20you%20may%20have%20created%20extra%20work%26nbsp%3B%3C%2FP%3E%3C%2FLINGO-BODY%3E%3CLINGO-SUB%20id%3D%22lingo-sub-2150206%22%20slang%3D%22en-US%22%3ERe%3A%20Microsoft%20Teams%20Release%20Processes%20-%20Why%20do%20I%20not%20see%20a%20feature%20but%20my%20colleague%20does%3F%3C%2FLINGO-SUB%3E%3CLINGO-BODY%20id%3D%22lingo-body-2150206%22%20slang%3D%22en-US%22%3E%3CP%3EIt%20IS%20updating%20itself%20once%20it%20gets%20to%20user%20AppData%20and%20user%20is%20using%20it.%20Ian%20is%20doing%20vain%20work%20by%20pushing%20msi%20over%20and%20over%20again.%20If%20use%20is%20not%20using%20it%2C%20it%20will%20stay%20the%20same%20version%20forever%20and%20eventually%20will%20be%20marked%20by%20security%20scanners%20for%20having%20some%20RCE.%20You%20can%20push%20msi%20to%20this%20machine%2C%20it%20will%20not%20update%20the%20version%20in%20AppData.%20Which%20is%20the%20same%20as%20if%20the%20user%20installed%20it%20on%20his%20own%20via%20exe%20from%20MS%20page.%20We%20are%20going%20to%20have%20Teams%20rollout%20soon%20using%20msi%20and%20i%20kind%20of%20dread%20this.%20As%20this%20will%20only%20create%20many%20more%20vulnerabilities.%20Especially%20on%20multi%20user%20machines.%20Because%20system%20wide%20installer%20%22conveniently%22%20activates%20when%20a%20new%20user%20logs%20in%20and%20copies%20its%20version%20at%20that%20point%20to%20user's%20profile%20and%20opens%20a%20sign%20in%20window.%20But%20if%20user%20ignores%20that%2C%20yeah%2C%20another%20obsolete%20vulnerable%20in%20future%20version%20sitting%20in%20user%20profile.%20MS%20it%20pushing%20Shadow%20IT%20with%20this%20design%20and%20then%20sells%20MCAS%20to%20control%20Shadow%20IT%20%3AD%3C%2Fimg%3E%3C%2FP%3E%3C%2FLINGO-BODY%3E%3CLINGO-SUB%20id%3D%22lingo-sub-2132713%22%20slang%3D%22en-US%22%3ERe%3A%20Microsoft%20Teams%20Release%20Processes%20-%20Why%20do%20I%20not%20see%20a%20feature%20but%20my%20colleague%20does%3F%3C%2FLINGO-SUB%3E%3CLINGO-BODY%20id%3D%22lingo-body-2132713%22%20slang%3D%22en-US%22%3E%3CP%3EThis%20is%20an%20excellent%20blog%20post%20explaining%20how%20to%20ship%20features%20to%20users%20and%20separating%20deployments%20from%20releases.%20We%20run%20an%20agency%20and%20use%20feature%20flags%20extensively%20to%20enable%20features%20directly%20on%20our%20clients'%20websites%20and%20only%20for%20their%20internal%20team.%20This%20allow%20us%20to%20get%20the%20best%20possible%20feedback.%20We%20use%20a%20tool%20called%20%3CA%20href%3D%22https%3A%2F%2Funlaunch.io%22%20target%3D%22_self%22%20rel%3D%22nofollow%20noopener%20noreferrer%22%3EUnlaunch%3C%2FA%3E%20due%20to%20its%20tiny%20size%20and%20overhead%20(had%20some%20concerns%20regarding%20other%20tools%20on%20page%20speed%20and%20performance.)%26nbsp%3B%3C%2FP%3E%3CP%3EOur%20server%20teams%20uses%20the%20Java%20SDK%20to%20separate%20deployments%20from%20releases.%20We%20also%20use%20kill%20switches%20for%20Op%20toggles.%26nbsp%3B%3C%2FP%3E%3CP%3E%26nbsp%3B%3C%2FP%3E%3CP%3E%26nbsp%3B%3C%2FP%3E%3C%2FLINGO-BODY%3E
Microsoft

At Microsoft Teams, we frequently hear the question, “I am running the same version as my coworker, but they have a feature I don’t. Why don’t I have that feature now? And how can I get it now?” Before we answer that question, we want to shed some light on our overall release processes so that the answer makes sense.


As a productivity tool connecting hundreds of millions of people around the world and enabling remote work, remote learning, and connections with family and friends, we take a very orchestrated approach to how we roll out and enable new features. We have multiple updates that get rolled out: web, desktop (Windows, Mac, Linux), mobile (iOS, Android), packages for conference room devices, and our backend services. Each of these packages are backed by feature flag configurations that let us ship a new Teams version and enable features separately.


When we roll out features, it consists of two activities:

  1. Shipping the version (Teams application version with code for new features included)
  2. Enabling the feature through the feature flag

Both activities happen progressively, but at different times. We first ship the build with the feature flags turned off. We progressively roll out the build to users, wait for the build to be picked up and used by users, and reach certain penetration rates. We’ll run scorecards for key performance and usage metrics between the prior build and the new build to ensure we are not introducing any form of regression with our latest version.


Once we have scorecards and confidence in the version, we can then begin to progressively enable our feature flags – making the new features available for users. For our larger, external customer facing rings, this is a multiple step process that usually happens over a few days.


Below is a high-level view of our audience segmentation. Each ring represents an audience with specific gating criteria to allow us to exit the build and the feature flag, and to progress them to the next ring.

Jessie_Hwang_0-1612282675618.png

When we begin rolling out feature flags within a ring is where you will usually see differences in features within the same version. We roll features and versions out on in increasing % tranches at user level (considering the worldwide user pool and not at an organization/tenant level) as it gives us the best cross section of use cases, hardware configurations, software configurations, network topology, bandwidth availability, etc., to validate our changes and the user experience they provide – but this does mean that co-workers on the same build can see differences in their features. Rolling out feature flags by organization introduces the potential to bias our results with similar hardware, bandwidth, and usage patterns, so we focus on getting a cross section of users and usage patterns with our rollouts.


In December 2020 we announced the availability of Teams Public Preview. Public Preview is a great mechanism to expose a subset of your user base to features a little ahead of everyone else. This allows you to get familiar with new features before they are available to all users.


Launch of Microsoft Teams preview experience and alignment with Microsoft 365 deployment channels | ...


Public preview in Microsoft Teams - Microsoft Teams | Microsoft Docs


Teams-Updates - Microsoft Teams | Microsoft Docs

 

26 Comments
Senior Member

We receive this question on a regular basis. Thank you for helping clarify the process that your team takes. Keep up the good work!

Super Contributor

This doesn't help in explaining users why they don't have a feature that another user has. This article will not help. They will still think they IT is dumb or doesn't care. Even personally, i just don't care about news about new features, because i know it can take months (not days) until you see it. Like with tasks in Teams, native notifications (where?) and so on. You are killing the excitement about new features with very long deployments and delays.

Super Contributor

Thanks to you @Martin Rinas to sharing this. But I believe the biggest problem on the organizational level is the transparency and predictability. I could use the client version report on CQD to see which version users are using and if new version is coming, I could see how widely it has been distributed. But as you told also, that is not the full picture.

 

I cannot see those feature flags from anywhere (?), I cannot see on which rings we are, and I have no possibilities to see when certain feature rollout is starting to our end users. Are you planning to share any visibility to this, or is this just a cost we need to pay when using the cloud services?

 

And about the public preview, if we allow users to choose to use that option, how I could see who have accepted the preview, and of course in centralized? It could be a challenge for the support organization if people who have forgotten that they are part of the preview features, and start reporting odd user experiences.

This doesn't really answer the question of how to ensure all those in the same ring and in the same tenant get the updates as quickly as they can *within* that tenant.  That is the main question we (IT) face every time a new set of features is rolled out.

 

Please solve this by pushing to everyone in the same tenant for whichever release ring they are in.  This just creates more work for IT groups everywhere like it is now and always makes users question if something is working correctly or not when their colleague on the same team gets new features they do not yet have themselves, etc.

Microsoft

Thanks Martin. This is something we deal with customers on frequent basis. having a public blog definitely helps.

Contributor

Hi , when we push Teams client via package using version 1.3 vs 1.4, where we can check which features are added in 1.4

Occasional Contributor

Based on this blog, once the new version is deployed to the tenant and the feature flag is turned on, everyone in the tenant should see the new feature. That is not my experience. I have users that are on the latest version, but still can't see features (like Together Mode) that have been out for months. Other users in the same tenant have all of the latest features.

 

Is there something else we need to do on a device or user level to ensure new features are available?

Super Contributor

@Don Kirkham 

As much I have learnt, the flags and versions are not going hand by hand. The features seems to be written into the earlier versions of the clients already, but are disabled until the flags on tenant enables it. Because of that, you could have older version from client (not too old) and still get the same features than newer clients.

Super Contributor

You are right. I was downgrading my Teams client some time ago and was surprised to see Presence scheduling option working in a much older version, when this option just appeared as available a few days ago at that point..

 

I can only guess, but maybe some users don't get Together Mode because of hardware restrictions. But i would rather guess features are not actually trickling down in a few days as MS brags. Not a first or second time i am waiting for months to get some new features.

Occasional Contributor

This was not all of the information I was looking for, but it is a start. While I understand that MS needs the time to roll out features, having some users have disparate experiences tends to degrade the user experience. For instance, the Teams Together Mode. One user can have it, and others, wanting to use it will not. That creates a disparate experience where if someone wants to kick off that new experience in their next meeting, because they're excited to share what they've learned, they don't have the feature. - Bad user experience and also creating issues with level 1 support seeking further clarification as to why they don't have that feature. 

 

What I would suggest Microsoft do is create talking points that would be available through their Microsoft adoption guides. It's important to note this and not just stumble upon this information. We need to be able to speak to it and temper the expectations of our own user base. I'll be able to take this information and craft it into a watered-down version for my company. 

Super Contributor

How about giving visibility to enabled/dormant flags? Maybe there can be a dashboard in Teams admin center showing which part of tenant users is on which version and which flags (features) are currently enabled and which are not yet for some users with an approximate ETA on enablement (which should change dynamically based on roll out progress, issues found, etc.). And maybe even in the client in some section about what's new, coming features, show a list of major features with a checkmark, if it is enabled on this client and some sort of "coming in x weeks" for the not enabled yet features.

Occasional Contributor

I do support on the MS Answers forum/community.  We constantly get this question.

.

Your excuse is WORTHLESS! 

 

All we users can see is:

  • Version number,
  • build number and
  • Channel

In the rest of the development world that would be enough information to uniquely identify what features we should be able to see in our applications. Different features, different build number!

.

If you want to play silly b**gers with "feature flags", fine. But YOU MUST EXPOSE/DISPLAY those flags (with publicly available explanation documentation) TO USERS! At the very least give us documentation telling us what registry keys to look at!

.

"You" (generically MS (mis)management) are obviously oblivious to the waste of user and user corporate time (and money) and the angst you are inflicting on your users!

(have you gotten the idea that I feel strongly about this issue?)

.

Fix this problem in ALL Office/"Microsoft 365" (stupid name change, a rant for another time) applications!  Display this/these "flag(s)" in the File menu > Account command > About information. 

PLEASE!

Occasional Contributor

PS: I have submitted a "feedback" in Word UserVoice "Display "Feature Flags" to users" (I intend it as a global "Office" feedback, not just Word specific):

https://word.uservoice.com/forums/304924-word-for-windows-desktop-application/suggestions/42618259-d...

Everyone who has commented, please vote and comment on this

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Don K:

I believe your understanding is not quite on.  As I understand it, the "feature flags" are implemented at the user level, not the corporate level. I suspect they are "secret" registry keys on the computer.  Maybe flags hidden in the "MS Account" information.  Either way, users have to see this information!

Super Contributor

Well, you should have posted it on https://microsoftteams.uservoice.com/ as this blog post is only about Teams.

Occasional Visitor

How does this map to the different types of Tenants (e.g. gcc, edu, etc...). Is this process repeated for each type of tenant, or are they brought in a different points as the feature is made public?

Visitor

Agree with ron S. Why it can't be just build number that would explain what version of the program I people have (=what features are available)? The updates are quire frequent, so it's quite impossible to know if everyone in my organization has the same features enable. In addition, on corporate level some features might be turned off so looking at Microsoft help pages won't help since the feature might not be turned on by my corporation. And one more annoyance is the really long period of rollouts.. New features are announced big, but the roll out to all users might take months. That's why I don't even look at the news about new features since it might take looooong time before I'm able to use it.

Respected Contributor

The traditional Office products do a good job of notifying the users about new features, it would be helpful if Teams provided a What’s New panel like they do 

New Contributor

This sort of makes sense, but then you find machines which are hopelessly out of date running 1.2 releases which refuse to update. Surely downloading the msi from the web and running it on a machine should be all that is required? Maybe it won't get you do the latest and greatest version, but at it should at least work to bring up the oldest installs to a recent version, no?

 

The same goes for all these profile installed versions. I'd prefer to have only a machine-wide copy installed. Why is this not possible? Installing the machine wide installer should eliminate the copy installed in the users folder, but it never does.

 

Things are ok at the moment, but they day someone discovers a major security bug in the client and we all have to urgently update to version 1.x this is going to become a major issue.

Occasional Contributor

@IanMurphy48  -- on the part you mentioned about  --refuse to update---,    perhaps you have seen this discussion:
--Force Teams desktop client update --

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/microsoft-teams/force-teams-desktop-client-update/m-p/2056566

 

---

Occasional Visitor

Respectfully, while this information is helpful for those of us who are IT admins, our end users just don't care. They are only frustrated that their coworkers have access to features that they do not. This makes change management for larger organizations very difficult - especially since now many of us are completely wedded to Teams for UC. 

Super Contributor

Don't get me started on appdata installation :) I am now in the process of remediation RCE vulnerability in Teams and having fun going through machines and deleting ancient Teams versions from users profiles. Sometimes 5, sometimes 12 (multi user desktops). At least don't make Teams automatically start and auto install when user just logs in into system and maybe has no interest in using Teams. Also fun in VDI when working on updating images, etc. and having to close that annoying login window jumping at you every time. MS is giving you tools fighting Shadow IT and yet on another hand gladly lending it to users. "What? Administrative permissions to install apps. Please! You don't need that for Teams.".

Occasional Visitor

This is an excellent blog post explaining how to ship features to users and separating deployments from releases. We run an agency and use feature flags extensively to enable features directly on our clients' websites and only for their internal team. This allow us to get the best possible feedback. We use a tool called Unlaunch due to its tiny size and overhead (had some concerns regarding other tools on page speed and performance.) 

Our server teams uses the Java SDK to separate deployments from releases. We also use kill switches for Op toggles. 

 

 

New Contributor

What I'm seeing is totally inconsistent with Teams mysteriously working perfectly and being up to date on some machines but on others I diligently push out the machine wide installer each few days but the user version just never updates. I have quite a few where the machine wide is 1.4.00.xxx and the user is still on 1.3.0.xxx

Worse, the msi installer will occasionally remove teams completely - with no errors logged as far as I can tell. It just disappears. I always run the msi with logging to a file and can't find any indication of why it would have just removed everything when it should have updated.

I have all of this automated, so whenever a new version comes out I push out the msi to hundreds of machines. I do this with many many applications, Teams is the worst to deal with. Acrobat comes a close second.

 

Respected Contributor

How come you are not just letting Teams update itself? It sounds like you may have created extra work 

Super Contributor

It IS updating itself once it gets to user AppData and user is using it. Ian is doing vain work by pushing msi over and over again. If use is not using it, it will stay the same version forever and eventually will be marked by security scanners for having some RCE. You can push msi to this machine, it will not update the version in AppData. Which is the same as if the user installed it on his own via exe from MS page. We are going to have Teams rollout soon using msi and i kind of dread this. As this will only create many more vulnerabilities. Especially on multi user machines. Because system wide installer "conveniently" activates when a new user logs in and copies its version at that point to user's profile and opens a sign in window. But if user ignores that, yeah, another obsolete vulnerable in future version sitting in user profile. MS it pushing Shadow IT with this design and then sells MCAS to control Shadow IT :D

Occasional Contributor

Being able to request that all users on smaller tenants (e.g. < 10,000 accounts) are synchronised on feature flags would be useful.