Forum Discussion
Windows 11, Start button menu, make it show all apps by default
Don-1 mate he's not suggesting that anyone uses the 3rd party app, he's specifically expressed multiple times that it's not recommended and not supported. He's suggesting the physical only safe supported thing to do about this right now which is provide feedback on the Microsoft Feedback Hub. That isn't exactly a separate place entirely, it's still part of the Microsoft.com site, it's just the part that's most likely to achieve results in terms of changes to logical layouts.
This new design is awful for people who work a certain way, and for people who have grown up on past versions of Windows. It's a known pattern for Microsoft to release essentially a useable version, then a god awful "modern" conceptual unusable version, then a usable version again, ad-nauseum, for most of their existence. This is the same crap they pulled with Windows 8. They got smashed with feedback about that start menu change and Windows 10 suddenly had a more logical, user friendly, classic design again.
Now they're clearly trying to lean in to AI and more theoretically "efficient" ways of using an OS, something that some people appear to either enjoy or at least be ok with, but not something that works for everyone. I imagine the core structure used to incorporate the "smart" features makes it more difficult to allow a classic view, but I'm not well versed in this area so this is just my best guess.
The best way for you or any of us to make sure this isn't the way Windows 12 goes is to give clear, well researched, well written feedback in the Feedback Hub. It's a pain in the rear, you're not wrong. This version of Windows is absolutely awful and if I weren't forced to use it at work I'd do what I did with Windows 8 and deal with a slightly outdated OS until the reasonable one is released.
The only way the next version is going to be anything close to what we're used to and what we're all hoping for is if they get enough clear feedback regarding these issues.
There are a multitude of objective usability issues with the current start menu design, documenting and presenting the issues with those is a great start. Documenting and explaining (and referencing) any research you can find regarding things like the impact of major forced organisational changes or anything about the efficiency of the classic design vs new design. Whatever issues you have with the way the new design works, write them out and look in to them, back your points up with more data and submit it to the Feedback Hub. The more people who do this the more clear it will be to Microsoft that these absolutely major and irreversible changes they make to people's every day work environments is disruptive and unnecessary, and hopefully they'll bring back a classic design yet again in the next version.
I wouldn't hold my breath for an official solution to a classic start menu in Windows 11.
jailorJ no, I said nothing even remotely close to that. The person I was referring to? Absolutely! Maybe you should stick to Facebook.
- If the tech team are interested in how the public are reacting to their product then they should read this hub. If they don't have time, that is sad. If it is a volume issue how a bit of AI to select the key points?
- So everybody who gets upset when a product has obvious fault is not fixed in a timely fashion is a crybaby. Why start your post with an insult. Maybe you should stick to twitter.
- I assumed nothing. You are literally one of the people I said this wasn't for. What exactly did you not understand about my very first sentence? Besides all of it?
This thread is about solutions. Either take into account the solutions or keep on walking. Justin_Emlay
You assume that all of us are able to install and use whatever software we like, which sadly is just not the case.For those that aren't crybabies and whine about everything in life....a good solution is to use WindHawk. There's a mode named - Show all apps by default in start menu.
This is 100 times better than ExplorerPatcher. I also use this for Taskbar Thumbnail Reorder.
EDIT:
Sorry MobilePhil, I wasn't replying to you directly just the thread in general.- You seem to have missed the point: The difficulty with icc profiles was not in just obtaining them; the problem was that Windows ignored them when loaded – and it did so for YEARS. As I said before, all the dialogue boxes etc. were there to do the job but there was no actual implementation code behind them. There was a massive amount of complaint and criticism in all parts of the PC scene about it. Microsoft “not realising” that the problem existed would be like a car designer “not noticing” that their car had no seats as they drove around in it.
I suffered this problem in several sequential releases of “pro” versions of Windows and several different high-end laptops and desktops; It was never fixed until MS realised it had to compete with apple in the tablet market – then it was Ok! That is not a “bug” (sorry, “security issue”!) – that is a deliberate failure by Microsoft to acknowledge and fix a major problem.
My requirement was only to print three or four moderate quality colour images per week - hardly enough to justify spending the price of a car on an apple system from the outset (as you recommended).
The reason I eventually did go to Apple was that I had had enough; Years spent searching and researching solutions to this problem and finding none. Countless hours spent fiddling around with colour balances etc. (The only thing that partially helped was DataColour Spyder which still didn’t actually solve the basic problem.)
I have been using Windows since it first appeared and its ancestors, MS DOS and CP/M before that. I was a professional real-time engineering programmer for 20 years of that. I know what a "bug" is. I never delivered a piece of software with a huge chunk of the functionality missing and then ignored the complaints.
I also have a long (30+years) history of knowing that Microsoft ignores most problem reports and criticism and gradually became increasingly arrogant and high-handed. I would have to be stupid to keep repeating the failed behaviour of trying to get MS to do something about problems. I have taken the intelligent option and stopped wasting time trying. All one CAN do, in your words, is get the satisfaction of “whingeing” about it - Mate you've missed the point entirely. The community can leave their feedback via the Feedback Hub. This is the Community Forum, where community members can discuss potential bugs before reporting them, solve problems for each other, and Microsoft representitives can be involved in the conversation.
This is a separate community space to the Feedback Hub, where constructive feedback can be left by the community for the Microsoft team to work through. This is a necessary process. You can only get so much from feedback left on platforms such as forums and social media. The Feedback Hub isn't "in house", it's completely open to the public. It's hosted by Microsoft, yes, but it's a really easy thing to find and use for most people who are willing to leave constructive feedback. The majority of posts in this forum and the majority of posts on social media are people whinging about things they don't understand, it would take an army to fish through that crap to find the rare gem of actually useful feedback. People spend more time on this forum whinging than it would take to actually submit feedback in the right place and have it seen by someone who can actually do something.
If you think the Microsoft representitives in this forum have literally any power at all to transfer the countless posts in this forum into actual feedback for the dev team you're delusional. Thank you.
As you stress, there are two (actually 3) participants and audiences for feedback.
1. the majority of users, who probably would use social media for problems - if at all.
2. the few users who participate in the MS community forums
3. MS staff who triage then address problems alerted on their in-house Feedback site.
If MS looks only at its in-house feedback, they are missing a huge amount of potential, early, awareness of problems. MS has always been inward looking. This is slowly changing, e.g. the Feedback site and the live personal solving of problems, e.g. QuickAssist. But digital technology has changed rapidly from being a geek's preserve and is now an essential public service. So MS and the other tech companies need to be far more open, responsive, reaching out, democratic even.
- And you're talking to a person who's seen plenty of constructive user feedback go a long way to having features changed/added/removed/fixed. Of course they've got some buggy features - show me a single piece of software that doesn't have a single bug. There are countless interconnected moving parts to an OS, I'd be keen to see you do a better job than the developers of any OS out there. You converted to Apple because of a single unavailable feature (which is incredibly easy to work around with perfectly safe profiles downloaded from places like monitor manufacturer websites as far as I'm able to see?) and you still think you're going to end up with some perfect, bug free experience? You made the choice to spend that money and business time because you didn't want to implement cheaper and easier solutions. If you work in digital/graphic media you likely should have been using Apple products in the first place.
If you did then what you're doing now and complaining about it on a community forum, which is what most people seem to want to do, it won't have actually reached the teams it needed to.
