Forum Discussion
Planner Task Dependencies and Task Ordering
Something I'd like to add to Planner thinking is the concept of Task Dependencies. If this concept was added it would make ordering somewhat easier whereby it could order tasks in each bucket based on dependencies. Yes this would require some thinking in terms of manual re-ordering, but at least it would provide a somewhat better experience without having to manually re-order 50 tasks.
Ordering is a major pain in Planner. I just created a plan with 42 tasks and 4 buckets (somewhat similar to Agile scrum boards). I created the tasks based on a proposal document from top to bottom. The first problem is that whilst you're working top to bottom in your proposal document, Planner adds the tasks in reverse order and provides no alternative method of adding a task to a specific position (Last, First, etc.). So for tasks 1 through 5 you add task 1 then 2 and so on, but Planner adds task 2 above 1, 3 above 2 and so on.
With 40 tasks, what you're left with is having to shuffle the tasks around by dragging and dropping them one above the other. Painful!
On top of that there are also random re-ordering issues which I posted about here
I love your suggestion and created an account to add my support to the notion.
Until this feature is included, I treat each card as a summary task, and use the "checklist" feature to define critical dependencies of a task group. This also provides additional progress context because the task shows the number of checklist items completed using the Board view.
Of course, this workaround has drawbacks, mainly the inability to define task data for items in the checklist (eg start/due dates, priority, progress, bucket.)
- I agree. 100%
I arrived here looking for a way to plan with dependencies. All of my tasks are of a personal nature. I can't imagine planning ANYTHING without dependencies. These are real-life situations that demonstrate the need for dependencies.
Engagement:
I have to visit the jewelry store and design a custom ring for my girlfriend before making the proposal, but I could be making reservations or planning the proposal in the mean time. However, the date will be dependant on the date the ring is available.
Dental Implants:
I have to schedule a Pre-Op appointment with the doctor before scheduling a surgery date, but I need to visit the dentist for impressions and planning the implanted devices, before I know what type of surgery and implants I require.
Power Chair Maintenance:
My current power chair needs new tires. In order to get that done, I need to be out of my chair for several hours. I have a backup chair that I can use, but it hasn't been completely configured to match my current one, so that project just got bumped to the front. I have to have a few parts installed and I need to get that completed before those parts are obsolete. Before I could do that, I needed to order new batteries and install them, so I could even get the chair to the shop. After getting the batteries installed, the ICS switchbox appears to be malfunctioning, so I'll have to debug that and make sure this chair is capable of functioning, before spending 6k+ for the parts. After that's done, I have two different places I have to take it, to get parts installed. Either one can be done in any order, so their start dates are tied to the ICS switchbox debug end date, but can't be completed simultaneously.
New House Construction:
We are talking with a builder about designing a house. The design process has just started, but we don't have a lot yet. I need to be spending time researching land in our area and contacting land owners about possible sales. But we also have an appointment with the builders in a few weeks and we need to fill out their initial discovery worksheet before the meeting.
There are pre-requisites for almost ANY task. Then, if you have multiple things going on at the same time...
Engagement
Power Chair Maintenance
Dental Implants
New House Construction
etc...
What's most pressing? Which one is waiting on me and which ones are waiting on someone else? What do I work on first?
This is an actual, real-life scenario that I'm looking for software to help me manage. Oh... And I'm confined to a power chair, with ready access to a smart phone, that is mounted on the arm of my power chair, in landscape orientation, using a RAM cell phone holder. So it would be GREAT if I could find an app that worked in this orientation.
The Microsoft Planner app interface is great and allows me to work from my situation. It's just missing the ability to associate tasks with a Finish-to-Start, Finish-to-Finish, or Start-to-Start relationship. There's no way to tell which task to work on first, or which tasks are hung up because they're waiting on another task. I like your view on this, my concern currently with Planner is that there is no "check" on tasks for completion because of the lack of dependant tasks. i.e. if you needed approval for example on a task completion like sign off on a document and the like, you would need something like a dependant task and also that the subsequent tasks cannot yet commence etc.
Jacques van der Hoven I am using planner as Program Management tool and I really like the ease of use for team members who are not very tool centric. MS Project pretty much requires a PhD in Project to use it and it drives non-technical people away. The only thing I am missing is the ability to link dependencies. I would also like to be able to better order my tasks, but that is not a show stopper. Other than having to manually adjust dates on dependent tasks and remembering that they are dependent, Planner works really well to visually depict where we are in the program development process.
vkngskier You can get the Gantt chart for Planner using third-party apps easily.
- I completely agree with your first point - checklists are great for an individual task but do not relate dependent tasks. Are peeps getting around this limitation with say the project online integration?
Other than that the next missing feature is custom fields for say project or budget codes.
I have put my plan in a spreadsheet before I am convinced that Planner is the ultimate destination. The functionality you speak of is logical, but starts to head towards a project plan as opposed to task management.
You should look at the Task list in SharePoint as this gives you waterfall, ordering, etc. And you can open it in Microsoft Project if you like, or just use the Gantt chart view in the list.
I agree with your point, if you allowed dependancies it would get complicated and people would try and build plans within it better suited to msproject. However I dont think it would be a big deal to allow decent sorting and some sort of linking or cross referring of tasks. It'm also hoping that recurring tasks can be built in. Recurrences are no problem for outlook so why not this. I was a bit disappointed with planner when i first saw it demonstrated as it came across as a half hearted application a bit like some of the google tools that appear to do the job but in practice turn out out not to be usefull because of all the little things they dont do.
buyerjkd It doesn't necessarily have to get complicated. It depends what you use the dependancy for.
For me, I would like to be prevented from marking a Task as started if it is dependant on another Task being finished. Would be great if it came up with a dialog box saying 'Sorry, you cannot start this task until xxxxxxx is completed'. I don't think that would complicate things at all.
Just my thoughts on it... 🙂
Interesting view although what does that leave us with in terms of a business case for Planner? Yes you can manage tasks, but ordering is a nightmare at the moment because it lacks some fundamental logical features that even the most mundane of projects would require. I.e. Add task After, Add task Before. And if it's just a task manager, why add buckets, collaboration, charts, etc. all features that a regular task list in SharePoint don't offer which make Planner more appealing.
Let's see where Microsoft takes us with Planner.
- If you want Prince2 style of project management then use MS Project, if you want something more SCRUM-based then use Planner.
If you want something that is more waterfall-based, with dependencies and those kind of things from traditional project management - then use the Tasks list as I suggested as it will give you that functionality, or use Project Online.
The business case for Planner is about task management. I pitch it as both individual and team/group-based task tracking, not so much projects. While we can order tasks (simply dragging into different positions) we can simulate an order - it's not intended for that purpose.
Project management varies from person to person. You shouldn't try to make the tool fit your PM style - find the more suitable tool.
This is something similar to sorting of tasks. When I search for similar requests in uservoice I found these
https://planner.uservoice.com/search?filter=ideas&query=sort
