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Hyper-V Server 2022

Iron Contributor

Anyone know whether there will be a Hyper-V Server 2022? i.e. the free version which is just for running VMs and has no GUI?

 

I've seen mentions on forums that this SKU is being dropped, but not found anything official.

 

Thanks

258 Replies
oh... dur... @Elden Christensen, what about SQL Express? Is that being retired? That would make headlines.
Or Microsoft Office Online (free) or Microsoft Teams (free) or Visual Studio Community Edition (free) or Microsoft Security Essentials (free) or...

I think it is corporates’ decision. But i think up to 4 core(on-premises) should be free.

Yup, there are strategic reasons for doing things as well. But the battle for the on-prem hypervisor of a decade ago is over and VMware's demise in the wake of the acquisition is imminent. So a shift in strategy, competitive landscape, and a lack of revenue... result in a shift in priorities and business decisions.
Of course, Microsoft can make any business decisions it deems necessary, but Hyper-V "generates zero revenue in return" is disingenuous at best.

Most companies don't develop, test, ship, certify, fix products or services that generate zero revenue.

That said, I accept that Microsoft has every right to make the decision it did. (Just not happy about it after having been available for about a decade).

Thank you again @Elden Christensen for engaging with this thread and dealing with all of the complaining that is being leveled unfairly at you. There is as always a large silent majority that I think is grateful for Microsoft and what it brings to the world. 

 

I grew up with Microsoft, from BASCOM for the TRS-80 way back when, all the way through today.  I'm a (small) customer, a (small) partner, and a (small) shareholder, so I look at this from lots of different perspectives.  I used Hyper-V Server 2019, and was sad at the news as were many people (because who doesn't love free stuff?!) but I understand and agree that Microsoft can't be investing tons of money in giving away free things.  It doesn't scale, and it doesn't help.

 

Everyone here needs to understand that Microsoft didn't celebrate this decision, any more than they might celebrate layoffs or any other trimming.  They're not sitting around in some room going "Ha ha ha, let's get 'em!"  They would much rather be all things to all people.  But they just can't right now.  It's clear they gave it long thought, and did this because they believed it would be in the best interests of everyone's future. 

 

At the end of the day, many of us, myself included, want Microsoft to survive, and grow, and thrive, because Microsoft brings a lot of good to us all.  And if that means shedding some free stuff, whether it's HyperV or SQL... or trimming in other ways, there are many out there who support Microsoft and want it to survive.  I would hate to live in a world where Microsoft wasn't pushing technology ahead.

 

@Elden ChristensenI hope you will convey these things to your team.  There are lots of us out here who appreciate Microsoft, and you specifically, and I at least want to make sure you know that.

 

For everyone else:  If you are a home user, and can't afford anything at all, HyperV 2019 is not going anywhere.  You can still get it!  It's still supported.  It's got 6 more years ahead of it - with an extended end date (I just looked) of January 2029.  Go download it.  Play with it.  Have fun!  It's still there!

 

Or, how about just running your workloads on HyperV under Windows 11?  That works too, and it's not going anywhere, and it's just fine!  AND FREE with your Windows 11 Pro license.

 

Or, if you're a home user but can't stand the thought of using a Hypervisor with ONLY six more years of support, grab something like XO. 

 

For everyone else, the employees and the companies out there, we should all be paying for what we use.  I can't get my dayjob to pay for squat, so they're on XO for now.  But for my consulting stuff, I paid for a Datacenter 2022 license, and yes, it was expensive, but it was a worthwhile investment, and highly recommended.

 

But let's not be beating on the Microsoft rep because we don't like the fact that our lollipop isn't everlasting.  Elden's doing us all a favor by even engaging here, and even if you don't agree with a corporate decision, he nevertheless deserves our thanks, not our derision.

I agree every single word you said. It is even nice of them to provide us the azure benefits. Still I cant afford to pay the server license… ㅠㅠ for my little home server(currently, 2019hyper-v).
"Or, how about just running your workloads on HyperV under Windows 11? That works too, and it's not going anywhere, and it's just fine! AND FREE with your Windows 11 Pro license."

3 interests of hv server :
1) Free
2) Very low consumption
3) Minimum attack surface

No sense to use windows pro/ent for these 3 raisons, windows server for 1st and 3rd raisons.


I dont understand that :
"and VMware's demise in the wake of the acquisition is imminent" (translate in french hard to understand).
MS will buy VMWARE ?

@DavidYorkshire If you want to run a newer, free hypervizor. If HyperV 2019 is not suitable. Then run vmware esxi 8. Its free, to run a single server hosting it. Without vSphere running vCenter etc. 

 

You need to register for a free license:

The license key can be created for free at VMware's website. It has no expiration date and the binaries you will receive as "Free Hypervisor" are 100% identical to the paid version but with some software limitations.

nice

@ECPTA 

Big limitation :

"Max 8 vCPU per Each VM"

After the Broadcom/VMware news I thought I'd check back into Hyper-V since someone mentioned things had gotten much better than the 08/2012 versions. Then found this thread when looking for the latest, hah.

Guess I'll look at proxmox or ride out esxi until its gone too.

@SQLSlacker there has been considerable innovation in the last decade.  Thinking of what Hyper-V was in it's first release is not accurate.  We just announced the next set of features coming to vNext at Ignite a week ago:  What’s New in Windows Server v.Next (microsoft.com)

 

This thread discusses the discontinuation of giving Hyper-V away for free with the "Microsoft Hyper-V Server" edition.  Which has nothing to do with the Hyper-V feature.  Hyper-V is foundational technology for Microsoft, it's the foundation of Azure, XBox, Windows Server, Windows 11, Azure Stack HCI, and more.  Do not confuse the decision to no longer give it away for free, with our commitment and investments in the Hyper-V feature.

 

Thanks!
Elden

@Elden Christensen 

 

I wrote a long reply, then deleted it before hitting send because it occurred to me that MS does not seem to actually care about what we think, need, or see in our clients (MSP in SMB space) needs. Just built our first XCP-NG and Proxmox clusters since this announcement. I'd prefer HV but you're forcing our hand and Stack is just out of the question expensive, and running full OS on bare metal with HV role is not wise for a number of reasons. Still feel like a "Stack Light" offering was a missed opportunity for SMB - it basically addresses all issues/concerns and gets people into the new ecosystem which is the entire point of this it seems.

 

I want to love MS as I have since the 90's, but this change, the partner program changes, and NCE are really bumming me out.

I'm not trying to be an apologetic for Microsoft here, but as I read back over this thread I've seen a lot of people assert that Microsoft "does not care." I think that it's inaccurate to make that claim. The very presence of @Elden Christensen - who is a significant part of the Hyper-V effort at Microsoft - in this thread shows that Microsoft does care, is engaging and is listening.

Like many who have posted in this thread over the many months it's been here, I have experienced sadness and frustration at many changes Microsoft has made, on many fronts. I use Windows Server, Hyper-V, and Windows 11. I use Outlook, New Outlook, and Teams. I use Azure, Entra, and many 365 products. And I, too, am a Microsoft Partner, with (now legacy) Silver status. Microsoft has made a lot of changes in all of these areas over time that have saddened me personally. But the reason I've been sad and upset is really because the changes Microsoft has made have inconvenienced me personally or destabilized my world in some way, not because I've been attacked, mistreated, or experienced something significant at Microsoft's "hands."

I put "hands" in quotes because Microsoft isn't a "person", it does not "care" or "not care." It is not some individual out there maliciously taking things away from us and laughing evilly at the result. Nor, we must remember, is Microsoft a charity. Microsoft DOES do many charitable things, but it is not a charity in the sense that it can continue to devote employee time to a free product that literally generates no revenue for them. It has done this for a long time, and we've liked it, but I can't help but wonder what the opportunity cost was. What else might they have done with those person-hours had they been shifted elsewhere? Microsoft has now asked itself that question, and made changes in response. We don't like this change, but that's not because we've been hurt. This thread has made exhaustively clear that we have choices. We can move to the new Microsoft HCI product, we can pay for a Windows Server license. We can use Hyper-V on Windows 11 for free. We can use XCP-NG. I've done them all, I use them all, they all work, they're all good options. We lose nothing here, we're not being cast adrift. We're upset here not because there is any real impact to us, we're upset primarily because our unjustified sense of entitlement is offended.

Instead, we have to remember that Microsoft is a corporation. It is one of the largest corporations in the world, and it's got many different pressures, both internally and externally, that shape and inform its direction. Microsoft's primary job is to grow as a company, to take care of its employees, sell products to its customers, and make money for its shareholders. I'm not an employee, but I am a shareholder, and I want Microsoft to make decisions that will grow the business and the value of my fractional ownership therein. I am a partner, and as a partner, I want the same thing. I'm also a customer, and as a customer I want good products that I can use... and because we live in a global culture, I understand and expect that I will need to pay for those products if I expect them to be good and usable. Only in my role as a smaller business, and/or an individual who likes to tinker with free stuff do I want Microsoft to keep giving us a free Hyper-V.

But just because I want a thing doesn't mean Microsoft can or even should pivot just to give me those things. Microsoft is making decisions based on many factors, and what we in this thread want IS one of them. But what we in this thread want simply isn't a large enough factor to override all the other factors that went into this decision. If Microsoft makes bad decisions, customers will vote with their wallets, and Microsoft will see that, and adjust. They've done so many times in the past, and will do so in the future as well. Their current size and success speaks to the correctness of many decisions they've made, decisions which often seemed wrong or problematic at first.

Here's a fun little example to illustrate this. Most of us here will be familiar with Microsoft 365, and the recently-added "New Outlook for Windows." Did you know that, in a stunning reversal of precedent and in seeming violation of their own policies, someone at Microsoft made the decision that New Outlook for Windows would no longer support Business Basic users? That's right: If you have a Microsoft 365 Business Basic account (or E1, or F1, or EXO P1, or EXO P2, or any of the "small" yet PAID accounts), you cannot use New Outlook for Windows? The program literally and actively blocks you, with a message making clear that the blocking is because of your license. Someone at Microsoft made that decision. You can see the details here, if you like:

https://feedbackportal.microsoft.com/feedback/idea/2f7925cb-3a80-ee11-a81c-000d3ae46fcb

Imagine the thinking there! Someone actually said, "Let's support free Outlook, let's support our competitors like GMail and Yahoo, let's even support iCloud. But our paying Business Basic users, who give us money each month? Naah." People are going to leave Microsoft 365 over that (as you'll see in the comments in that post) and it's going to hurt MIcrosoft's bottom line. I objected to that change and started that thread because I believe the choice is wrong, and will cause Microsoft losses, and I want to prevent those losses. But Microsoft didn't make that choice to be malicious or because they don't care. They made that choice for a reason, and if they're right, they'll prosper and grow, and if they're wrong, they'll figure it out and adjust.

With Free Hyper-V, the value is less clear. Elden has already explained - several times - that there is a new product out there and, yes, it's not free, but the paying workloads are going to be taken care of. We who are used to getting stuff for free don't like that, but ultimately, if the choice Microsoft has made to stop giving Hyper-V away for free turns out to impact their bottom line, they will figure it out and adjust.

Meanwhile what we have here is a situation where a free product, to which Microsoft has committed countless person-hours in the past, yet which has clearly generated zero direct revenue for them, ever, is being withdrawn, impacting only people who weren't paying for it anyway.

And yet, despite that, we have one of the leaders of the Windows Server team at Microsoft patiently sitting in this thread, month after month, responding to our messages, being present, and engaging. Which is more, I think, than ANY other large corporation would do, under these circumstances.

So while I understand and even to some degree share in the frustration over changes (Don't move MY cheese! Not in MY backyard!), I think that in all of our interactions with Microsoft we should remember the context and the larger picture. The PEOPLE at Microsoft absolutely DO care about what's happening in every part of their company, and DO care about people, including us. But, just as we often have to in our own jobs and lives, they have to sort their priorities and make hard decisions that not everyone is going to like. Reducing that to "they don't care" just doesn't track, and it's not an accurate summation. We need to stay focused on the big picture here. We've provided our opinions about the impact of this decision on us and on Microsoft, to Microsoft, and they have listened and personally acknowledged us, in this thread! Given how many companies don't do that, we should be grateful that Microsoft does! Now we need to move ahead, and trust the process, and adapt if necessary as things continue to change and grow.

Glen
I think you've rather missed the point!

"but it is not a charity in the sense that it can continue to devote employee time to a free product that literally generates no revenue for them. It has done this for a long time, and we've liked it, but I can't help but wonder what the opportunity cost was. What else might they have done with those person-hours had they been shifted elsewhere?"

Hyper-V Server was basically Windows Server core with only the Hyper-V role available. As such, the development effort required, over and above that which would be required anyway for the paid products, will not have been significant in the scale of this sort of work.

It was basically a loss-leader as it encouraged people building datacentres to use Hyper-V, even if the workloads were a mix of Linux and Windows - they could use Hyper-V Server for hosting the Linux VMs. It was also useful for testing. All of this is likely to have led to further purchase of the paid versions. Without it, other hypervisors may have looked more attractive.

Microsoft appears to have withdrawn it in an effort to drive subscription revenue to Azure / Azure Stack HCI. I don't know to what extent that's working, but anecdotally I've been told by a number of consultants that they've done POCs for customers interesdted in Azure Stack HCI, but most haven't led to actual orders as they decide it's too expensive for what it offers.

A fair bit of the market may therefore have moved to VMWare, Proxmox, etc, and this may well have had a knock-on effect on sales of paid licenses. No doubt Microsoft will be monitoring this, but their main aim these days seems to be to push everyone into hosted subscription services of one type or another.

@DavidYorkshire 

without forgetting that the real problem we were pointing out was not the price, but the exhibition space; hyperv server had no unnecessary services, unlike windows servers.

Paying a hundred euros for hyperv server for the license is acceptable.

Low resource usage,
Low penetration surface,
No cloud...

All that we want...

Not to mention that there were no dedicated devs, since we had to ping them here to tell them that there was an update error that had been going on for 3 months...

Support until 2024? my eye...
They already forgot that hyperv server existed xD

@GlenB 

 

You're hung up on thinking I am bitching it isn't free anymore. That isn't the core problem (unless compared to Stack as being the replacement, more on that later). I am not a home user, or home labber. I run an MSP and serve clients in the SMB space. Standard practice is everyone is a VM for portability and ease of recovery/migration and currently we use HV Server as said hypervisor. The new options don't meet the needs of the SMB markets we service - it's a step backwards to run full Windows server, just to get the hypervisor and just feels like a Lab vs production environment. SO, the only other alternative per MS is to use Stack. That is out of the question for SMB due to costs, special hardware requirements, and cluster size minimums - all are not realistic for SMB.

 

These users all own licenses of Windows Server, SQL etc; it's the architecture of the network that I have beef with in increasing the attack surface and complexity and arguably license costs to do "the new way". These are not users looking to get something for nothing, they pay for Windows - it's just the new way is either a step backwards or a giant cost increase.

 

There are other reasons I don't like it, like for getting newbies into the system to learn etc (assuming stack is the other option), but I'll leave the "not listening" topic where it lies and that we disagree there.

 

I just can't help but think some kind of "Stack Light" would be the path forward that addresses the needs of SMB as outlined, and still funnels everyone in the direction MS obviously wants everyone to go and eliminates this "putting dev into HV Server" problem being cited as a reason in killing HV Server since people would be using Stack. The upside too would be that people are already then using the "new" platform - making the knowledge base current and upgrade path to Stack "full/premium" or straight up Azure an easy option.

@Elden Christensen 

Interesting video, some nice features coming.

 

Hot patching of course will be fine - but:
At least our problem here is not the fact, that after patching a server has to be restartet.
The problem is, that download of updates takes a lot of time even if you have a very fast internet connection and that the restart takes a lot of time.
Something was broken there in Server 2016 - there were 40+ minutes blue update screen with no kind of activity on cpu/disk/network.
It's got better with Server 2019 but not good, installation of updates mostly takes more time then a complete server installation.
So our requirement is not hot patching - fast "normal" updating will do it (means: A repair of the broken update process).
If I understood the video right, for hot patching it's needed (again!) to connect servers to the Azure cloud even, if this is not wanted.
This is a problem especially here in Europe for data protection reasons.

 

The main problem of Azure Stack HCI for me is not, that this is not a free Hyper-V Server, it's the connection to the cloud.

 

Time will come when MS requires a cloud connection (and monthly license fee) for the computers mouse to function, I think.
(Maybe also for mousepads?)