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AJS10
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Joined Sep 20, 2022
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Re: Support for M365 Apps (O365) on Windows 2022
Hi, Microsoft have already made a statement that Multi-Session Windows is available On premise, however this is limited to Azure Stack HCI. M365 Apps will be supported on this in line with the Modern Lifecyle policy as it is the same as used for Azure Virtual Desktop. There are however some issues with this is as follows: 1) No availability for running Multi Session Windows on other hyper-visors - Windows Multi Session checks it is on Azure. 2) Azure Stack HCI has additional licensing requirements (although these are bundled if the customer has Software Assurance on their Windows Server licenses or CSP Subscription). 3) Azure Stack HCI is not permitted for use in multi-tenant environments - effectively Microsoft has locked out all other cloud providers from running Windows Multi Session on their platforms as most would potentially run Azure Stack HCI. 4) Azure Stack Hub used to be pushed into multi-tenant environments - Microsoft has now told manufacturers to not push this into multi-tenant environments as it has too much of an overhead - it is also limited in what it can do - instead Stack Hub is now pushed into single-tenant large customers for internal DC specialist workload use. 5) I suspect there will never be an LTSC variant of M365 Apps as it is not designed to be LTSC as this would break Microsoft's ability to take the application forwards. 6) MS Teams Support - Microsoft do not have an option on RDS for Teams Video unless you add on Citrix - but they include the option natively in Azure Virtual Desktop with the new connection broker via WebRTC- ie they need a native on-premise option for this with RDS (There are actually unofficial guides online on how to get the new AVD Client working with RDS and supporting WebRTC - so it cannot be that hard to achieve). 7) Microsoft currently has a licensing anomaly around use of Windows Desktop OnPremise or in Cloud - The recent licensing changes are welcome which permit wider use of Windows OS, however Microsoft have still created a preferential scenario for smaller customers by allowing customers to use Windows OS for free in Azure/Azure Stack HCI with MS365 Business Premium subscriptions put not permitting this on customers alternate hypervisors or alternate cloud provider environments. Personally I feel that the majority of customers just need choice - allowing Multi-Session Windows with fair and equal licensing and full functionality on any hyper-visor (subject to any required conditions e.g. supports windows etc), via any cloud provider and on any model (On-Premise or Cloud/Dedicated or Shared) would remove the majority of concerns for the majority of customers (I do understand that certain specific environments would still not be able to follow Modern Lifecycle). All of this alongside resolving the continued and growing concerns from the regulators regarding potential anti-competitive practices both in licensing and cloud.3.1KViews2likes0CommentsRe: Support for M365 Apps (O365) on Windows 2022
Deleted - I totally agree that GUI is still required for a range of applications, especially where there is Server Side interfaces etc. But Microsoft is definitely pushing/recommending Core (Ironically, we had some fun with the recent Kerberos bug in secure environments as we could not login or remotely manage some Windows Core Servers - this issue was compounded as we could not get a Gui up to look at Event Viewer and could not remotely access the server for management etc - ie Core often increases resolution times in smaller environments). The irony of this whole thread is that software vendors are pushing their applications into SaaS software models (as per O365/M365), which at least in theory means the need for RDS/VDI reduces as these become browser based. This is of course not a real world scenario as so many companies have legacy sunset / specialist software or secure use cases and they still need RDS/VDI to access it. Of course Microsoft may argue that Single User Windows 10/11 is now available to everyone at a lower cost point, especially with the recent CSP licensing changes - but this does not provide the flexibility and cost point for most customers that just want RDS (or its replacement). From a commercial perspective the Evergreen Subscription model is great, but companies tend to work on fixed capital budgets with the option to reduce operational costs if things take a dive. Then they also have the option to sweat the asset for years afterwards. With Azure you are in reality required to take longer term 3yr reservations to get a similar cost point, but these would require renewing at end of term and are "officially" not cancellable. There are also the other issues whereby storage/disk/backup are not fixed pricing for the term and Microsoft has changing policies etc. Small to Medium businesses either embrace digital transformation, or want to stick to a traditional capex/opex model with certainty for the duration. ie they buy once and don't have to worry about it for 3-5 years. I guess perhaps the question is (and perhaps the answer that we all need from Microsoft) is whether the RDS role is going to be deprecated in future Windows Server releases. Certainly, in Azure Virtual Desktop there is a push for users to run Multi Session Windows 10/11 rather than RDS (I also heard on the grapevine from a partner that Microsoft recently announced at a Partner conference that they will be deprecating RDS in AVD - but I have not validated this). The Microsoft answer to date is to use Azure or Azure HCI, which as you note also still includes the SAC release model - but I would expect most to see this lock-in as dangerously anti-competitive on the Cloud Provider and Hypervisor side of things. You may sense I keep pushing for Windows Multi Session outside of Azure as it seems like a relatively simple approach to all of the challenges Microsoft and ourselves face. Single Product set to Support, Zero Anti-Competitiveness concerns on the Windows, Cloud Provider and Hypervisor side of things, choice for users via Azure, On Premise or A.N.Other Cloud/Hypervisor, enables Microsoft to align the development of Windows and their support policies, and enables the onwards push towards GUI less Server etc etc.5.1KViews0likes4CommentsRe: Support for M365 Apps (O365) on Windows 2022
greatquux- They do - the history of that development (along with the ever onwards march to Azure) is where this whole story starts. Microsoft originally didn't have a short-term policy and focussed on long term support for their products - the OnPremise world. They were actually pretty fair and good at this compared to the numerous other vendors out there. Although it has annoyed me immensely that TechNet got trashed and articles that people linked to just produce 404 errors! Then they "invented" Cloud and had to work out how to move rapidly in that world against Google and AWS - so they came up with 3 streams - LTSC (Long Term Servicing Channel), SAC (Semi-Annual Channel) and Modern (ie Cloud Delivered Products). However, they got rid of SAC in August 2022 and only have LTSC and Modern now. For Office there are 2 channels - LTSC (fully supported on Windows Server and always has been - traditionally purchased as Perpetual or Subscription licensing, however not guaranteed to work with Office 365/Microsoft 365 after a set date) and Modern (Office 365/Microsoft 365 delivered). But the issue is customers want to use the copies of Office they purchase through Modern subscriptions on their LTSC copies of Windows Server, ie they don't want to license twice and have to buy an LTSC Office copy for their Windows Server as well as a subscription for their local PC's. Then there is the issue that Windows Server is only on LTSC (or at least is via OnPremise), but used to be on LTSC & SAC. Whereas Windows 10/11 is on LTSC and also Modern (Azure Virtual Desktop etc). Finally there are the rumours that Windows Server GUI mode will be deprecated (indeed I believe Microsoft has announced that Windows Desktop code is now on a different track to Windows Server code). As Elden_Christensen highlights - Azure Stack HCI is based on Windows Core - the future is no doubt a GUI less Server product based around Powershell (or Azure) . So to the mere layman like me (and most others here), it would suggest that the simplest answer for all is to release Microsoft Windows Pro/Enterprise Multi-Session to run on Windows Core Hyper-V/HCI (or any other Hypervisor such as VMWare/Nuttanix etc). Thereby allowing the virtualisation layer to elegantly disconnect the LTSC and Modern servicing channels completely. (Although I should add that Microsoft also didn't support Office 365/Microsoft 365 on Windows Server 2019 when it was first released, and then updated their policies, perhaps due to similar peer pressure)5.2KViews0likes7CommentsRe: Support for M365 Apps (O365) on Windows 2022
Elden_Christensen 1) I believe Azure Stack HCI a single tenanted solution. What about hosting providers or software vendors that still need/want to supply "RDS" solutions - they need a multi-tenanted offering outside of Azure which is cost-effective and can leverage their knowledge, hardware investments and technology (Realising that there is also Azure Stack Hub but I don't believe this is on the preview) (Also refer to European cloud providers - they have announced they are going to continue to push EU to investigate Anti-Competitive practices within Microsoft re Azure/CSP etc despite the recent changes...) 2) What about companies that are required to have stand-alone infrastructure which is not integrated with Azure. (Also refer to recent French ruling that Microsoft Cloud and Google Cloud cannot be utilised as a solution for Public Procurement) 3) Why limit Teams Video/Voice as wholly limited to Multi-Session Windows 10/11 on Azure - surely the boffins can come up with a solution for RDS (or just release Multi-Session Windows 10/11) 4) Why bundle all licensing for Azure Virtual Desktop in M365 Business Premium but require On Premise customers to have to buy RDS CALs/SALs... because there is no Multi-Session Windows option.. 5) Regarding the thread - Personally, I feel Microsoft has backed itself into a corner with the changes in direction in support policies - someone realised that they couldn't have a fast track release model (O365/M365) alongside a LTSC model (Windows RDS) - hence no support - but with all of the continued talk of anti-competitive practices coming out of Europe you would think that the simplest thing to do would be to focus on just getting Windows 10/11 Multi-Session outside of Azure lock-in. 6) Honestly what are the real challenges of launching support for Multi-Session Windows 10/11 other than Microsoft politics, the magic azure connection broker (presumably the traditional RDS connection broker would not take much (if anything) to get it working with multi-session windows), and need for Graphics Cards which is already an option on RDS (WHQL?)..5.2KViews0likes9CommentsRe: Support for M365 Apps (O365) on Windows 2022
This is welcome news, although the key to avoid the need to create support and resolve the future roadmap conflicts with Windows Server and Windows Pro/Enterprise is surely to simply allow Windows 10/11 Enterprise Multisession to work outside of Azure, within standard customer/Service Provider environments. Naturally we all understand that there will be some technical requirements to enable this to occur, but as Azure Stack HCI is going to allow it then it would appear that the centralised Azure infrastructure will support this outside of the Microsoft Datacentres.7.3KViews0likes0Comments
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