Stop forcing us to use Edge.

Copper Contributor

I should NEVER be told, by Microsoft or anyone, which browser to use.

 

I should NEVER log on to Windows, to find Edge open and running, and set to my default browser.

 

Get it through your heads:  We aren't using Edge.  Until you make it actually, legit better than Chrome or whatever browser we prefer.

 

So tired of this BS.

16 Replies

@jtcbrown 

 

Do you remember when Ask.com and other bogus, malware apps would do this?

Is Edge malware?  Are you that desperate?

@jtcbrown 

Alt+Shift+I, that's where you can give constructive feedback, MTC - it's users and volunteers, so your comment won't change anything here.

My comment won't change anything, regardless of where I submit it. Still going to scream into the void over garbage policies and practices.
"I should NEVER be told, by Microsoft or anyone, which browser to use."

You're literally told by Opera, Brave, Google Chrome constantly bombarded by their fake ads on social medias, app stores, sites etc. that their browser is better and you need a 3rd party browser because Edge is supposedly not enough and it's bad.

@HotCakeX 

 

Really?  So Opera is setting itself to my default browser on a reboot, even if I don't click those ads?

I'm not mad about ads or prompts.

 

I'm mad because I logged onto my personal PC, to find Edge open and set default, which I had not done in any way of my own accord.  

 

Maybe try actually reading the question / problem next time.  :D

@jtcbrown 

I have a question, can you change the default browser in the settings?

Yes, I can - but again, no program should take over as default without me directing Windows to do so. Not even at time of a manual install; it should ask.

Fixing this wasn't that hard. But should not have been necessary, and again this speaks back to all the antitrust stuff with IE, and to how malware distribution works.

They keep trying to force us to use Edge, via garbage policies and shady practices, and I am going to speak out against it, every time.

@jtcbrown  

I understand you a bit, but an experienced IT professional knows that Windows needs to be maintained and updated in the default environment, i.e. using default settings and Bing (now Bing AI).

These are automatically enforced technical requirements, and they really are necessary!

Third-party browsers use the same Windows defaults.

So Microsoft secures your network connections and what is a problem for you ->is a must! 

Microsoft can update my PC just fine without setting my default browser to Edge, or my default search to Bing.

I reject that answer entirely, sorry.
I mean, if I had in fact gotten some malware that MS was removing, and thus resetting to defaults, OK, fine.

Google Chrome is not malware, nor is Google Search as my default search engine.

@jtcbrown  

Well , Google Chrome It has other settings that need to be synced after updating Edge, if Windows was the furious creator of Google Chrome then he wouldn't have to use Edge for basic Windows updates and maintenance.

After all, updates have to be downloaded from Microsoft's servers via Edge, why do you think?

Umm.. I'm sorry I simply don't understand that reply.

"Google Chrome it has other settings that need to be synched" - No, it doesn't. Chome interacts with the options set in Internet Settings, where needed, but does most of its work in its own folders and settings, and does not need to "synch" settings on update of either windows or chrome - it just reads from registry where needed for settings shared on all browsers.

"If windows was the furious creator of Chrome" - Uh... what?

"After all, updates have to be downloaded ... via Edge" - Not really, I mean that is the manual way, but all of those links work fine in Chrome as well. Windows will *open* those links in Edge if clicked from within a Windows dialog box, ignoring default browser setting entirely (also very annoying and questionable practice) - but most Windows updates are downloaded in the background and do not require interaction with Edge.

I think you are trying to help, and I appreciate that, but I think you don't very well know what you are talking about, or maybe just lack communication skills or something. Apologies.

I came here and signed in just so that I could agree with this.

Here's the thing - I worked for Microsoft - As a web architect. I have always been a Windows user. I love some of their products but for the most part their consumer-grade applications outside of the core Windows OS are absolute garbage (and by "most part" I mean I cannot think of a single consumer product that does not frustrate and alienate their users - maybe the Xbox, but if you think about it, the Xbox OS is actually pretty frustrating to use, and Microsoft doesn't make the games).

Allow me to shed some light on what you clearly already know, which is the fact that Microsoft does not care about you or my or anyone's feelings on this, nor will they anytime soon. This is actually less of a business problem as it is a company culture issue. Microsoft is *incredibly good* at creating enterprise-grade software. The power of their products for large business is pretty much what runs the entirety of the modern world in the enterprise space. They are really good at solving very complex problems in massively scalable ways.

What they are NOT good at is thinking or caring, at all, about user experience (A.K.A. UX). Oh, sure, they have user experience teams at Microsoft- I've worked with several of them - they just do not care about what they output or whether or not what they output is worth using. Serious discussions around concerns involving the users are usually shoved off as unimportant. It's why microsoft's help forums are useless, its why pleas to change how they do things go unanswered. It's not a culture of working collaboratively, its a culture of stab and stomp your way to the top.

I have countless anecdoates about walking into the office to ask a UX designer what some button that was inlcuded in a design I'm supposed to implement is supposed to do, only to have them stare blankly at it and go, "Huh, I didn't even think about that". It's bizarre. They add things into products because it "sounds cool" but spend, and I'm not exagerating, literally zero time thinking about them. They will allocate tens of thousands of dollars of time to implement some feature that nobody will use, yet completely ignore refinement of feautres that could be good, but suck because they haven't been finessed into place.

Back to Edge vs any other browser. Ironically, as somebody who's spent the last 15+ years as a web application engineer, know that I was on the front lines of hating IE and all of its horrible versions that were always a year or two behind the status quo. I've advocated for standards adoption (yes, the internet has a standards body, called the W3C, which has existed for decades, and that every other major browser company actually cares about and pays attention to) at Microsoft in every way I knew how. The IE browsers never quite worked the same as every other browser out there, and literally web software engineering used to have a phase of every project that revolved around "Making the application work for every browser, and then going back to make it work for IE versions" - of which there were usually at least 2 or 3 that we had to support. That's because IE would constantly roll out "upgrades" that didn't fit with the current standards.

Edge, believe it or not, actually DID decide to finally get on the bandwagon. They finally ARE standards compliant, because they finally DID adopt Webkit which is the underlying engine beneath most modern browsers. Turns out that nowadays, we web engineers hate Safari the most for being non-compliant! It turns out (I know, this is heresey to say) that I actually think Edge is a GOOD browser. I just refuse to use it on principle - because Microsoft has broken my trust as a user, and also because of their dirty, dirty tactics in trying to force me into using it. If I felt invited to use it, I'd try it out. Instead, I feel like they point it at me like a gun.

The many, many years of Microsoft trying to force us all to accept browsers that just didn't work, and now constantly telling us to switch to Edge when *we just don't want to because Microsoft has badly hurt its users trust in them* doesn't feel welcoming - it feels alienating and subversive. And, given everything I wrote above about how much they care about UX, this shouldn't be a surprise.

At the end of the day, product decision are made by two groups of people at Microsoft:
- People at the top of the pile - usually C-level or sub-C-level types who have their fingers waaaay down in the weeds where they don't belong, as they completely ignore the experts they pay 6-figure salaries to who are actually good at what they do, and all of their pleas to "please don't make us do it this way".
- People who rank the highest on any given team - when I was there, routinely, feature and user experience decisions were made by cloud team engineers who have no background in design, user experience, or any other form of user-facing products.

Unfortunately, that's the company culture. I keep using the OS because I like it. I put up with (sometimes frustratedly, sometimes disappointedly, and often angrily) the shenanigans of having to use certain Microsoft tools because they simply do not care about their user, because I still prefer Windows to Apple or Linux or whatever other wanna-be OS there is out there.

Hopefully this is insightful and not just a horribly long rant. But it did feel good to write :face_with_tears_of_joy:

This kind of thinking is why Microsoft lags behind in user satisfaction.

If "IT Professionals" were good at their jobs, they'd have ways to keep users safe around security that are transparent to users. No, using Bing as a search engine is not "necessary". No, using Edge is not "necessary". Every other aspect of user security works the same way - protect the user from themselves by providing guard rails, but do it *transparently* allowing them to go about their daily business. A Windows update shouldn't result in the user having to spend 15 minutes trying to figure out how to un-cluster-f their OS from a bunch of changes made without their consent. It destroys trust, alienates them as a user, and pisses them off. It's also massively condescending to a user to tell them that "we know better than you" around security or anything else for that matter - if you "know better", then "do better" by doing this in a better way.

They have always made the claim that this is about security, but it isn't. Chrome, Firefox, Safari, Brave, and a whole host of other browsers are totally safe and reputable ways to use the internet. Any argument to the contrary is either utterly misinformed, or partisan shenanigans. I've been a web architect for over 15 years, the arguments for this do not stand up to scrutiny and are based on tribalism, business bottom-line-arguments, or incompetence in implementation by Microsoft and/or IT teams.
That's the same on Apple ecosystem. Apple is so much worse, they even outright deny EU's orders to open up their ecosystem.

Microsoft now allows people in the EU to completely remove Edge browser. Can you do the same on Android? no, can you do it on Chromebook? no, IOS? no, Mac OS? no.

I mean we should be realistic here, it's totally unfair to just ignore all other ecosystems that are far worse and keep singling out Microsoft.

@jtcbrown  This seems like something to make a complaint to US Justice Department for MS to use its monopoly to force you to use edge and deny other browsers.