Forum Discussion
Stable Version
I purposely took one of my old laptops (not used anymore almost not usable due to age) and downloaded it, installed it, than deleted it to test it from WalkingCat's site. When deleting it informed me I was deleting an insider version (with the questionnaire of why I'm deleting it) which seem to be an old version of Edge Dev. So it's just a bootleg (hack) of Dev version made to look like a stable version. The uninstaller was the giveaway.
It reminds me back in late 1997/early 98 when warez pirates on IRC were taking Windows 95 and somehow modifying the name a bit to Windows 98 claiming it was a "leaked pre-stable release of Windows 98" when it was nothing more tha a hack up of Windows 95 made to look like a leaked version of Win 98 even though Windows 98 was closed source. It happens a lot and like others said I would stay clear of it and only download Edge Canary, Dev, and/or Beta.
Tor is infamous for doing this with Firefox (Mozilla' being fine with it) as they simply took Firefox ESP and replaced the name Firefox with the the Tor name over it and declared it "The Tor Browser" when it's nothing more than Firefox ESP. Most people using Tor don't know they're using Firefox ESP lol.
Anthony "Tor is infamous for doing this with Firefox (Mozilla' being fine with it) as they simply took Firefox ESP and replaced the name Firefox with the the Tor name over it and declared it "The Tor Browser" when it's nothing more than Firefox ESP. Most people using Tor don't know they're using Firefox ESP lol."
I don't use Tor or have any interest in the Tor browser, but I think something needs to be said: The Tor browser is an independent browser based on Mozilla's https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/. It is not Firefox ESR with the name changed and that alone.
The Tor Project takes Firefox ESR code and changes/adds patches to the base code to (a) enhance anonymity, (b) enhance privacy and security in a number of ways, (c) in most recent iterations, embed various Tor extensions directly into the modified browser. The Tor browser also changes a number of Firefox preferences from the default configuration. The details are readily available in Tor Project documentation about the browser if you are interested in the details.
What Tor is doing (developing a specialized branch/fork of existing open source code to meet specific needs) is common in the world of open source software (the branching and forking from Star Office to OpenOffice.org, then to Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice is a good example), and (in general, with limitations) freely permitted under https://www.toptal.com/open-source/developers-guide-to-open-source-licenses so long as the branched/forked code remains open source rather than proprietary.
The Tor browser branch/fork of Firefox ESR is not at all similar to the situations you describe.
- tomscharbach - I had Tor Browswer for a short time. The Onion Network is unstable at best. It's basically a world of overdramatization (on youtube), piracy and teens seeing too many 90's hacking movies and thinking they're in the Matrix or something. When I would check out any chat forums or chat rooms they were mostly filled with pervs and pedos. Why I dropped it, I found it pointless to use.
Anyhow When I went to the "about" part of the browswer it would refernece it back to Firefox ESR. Not on the desktop browswer (anymore...I think) but on the app it still does. Yes, it does add it's own "codec" and all that stuff built on top of Firefox ESR that suppose to make the user more secure and "hidden" but it's not as as secure as people think. The FBI used a security issue/bug in FireFox ESP that was being used by Tor and nailed a lot of illegal activity. Firefox went through the roof with that. Most users htink Tor is it's own source engine browswer not knowing it's sourced off Firefox/Gecko.
Anyhow...I download Tor for Andorid browswer an hour ago to see, and if I put in about:firefox it comes up with the about page of "Firefox ESR 60.0.8".
Here's that link about the FBI bust and Mozilla reaction to it: https://thehackernews.com/2016/05/fbi-tor-firefox.html?m=1- These days TOR is mostly used by the same people you describe, desperate to find out what the dark web is and all the filth in it. but little do they know, there is no search engine for dark web lol.
it's not like there is no organization in the world that can't stop it though. of course they can, they just don't want to.
image if FBI could pull that hack off against TOR users then what NSA could do!
right now TOR is not as safe as it used to be say in 2014 when Ed Snowden used to talk about it.
there are also some people that use it to circumvent censorship such as people in China or other countries with domestic firewall or even DPI censorship and TOR is great for them because of custom relays and stuff. Anthony I don't know that the Tor developers or their clientele are good, bad or indifferent. Probably a mix of good, bad and indifferent, as is usually the case with human beings. In any event, that is not a question at issue in my response to you.
My only concern was to correct a statement you made in your earlier comment "... they simply took Firefox ESP and replaced the name Firefox with the the Tor name over it and declared it "The Tor Browser" when it's nothing more than Firefox ESP...", which I believe to be factually inaccurate.
I suggested only that (a) Tor developers did not simply rebrand Firefox as Tor (as your comment suggested), but instead developed a fork/branch of Firefox ESR code to meet the needs of the Tor Project; (b) the Tor Project's fork/branch of Firefox ESR code followed more or less standard practice in the Open Source community; and (c) the use of Firefox code almost certainly conformed to applicable licenses, which often includes the requirement that the revised fork/branch refer to the code from which the fork/branch was developed.**
I don't think we have an argument, or should allow one to develop.
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** See, for example, the reference in Edge Chromium: "This browser is made possible by the https://www.chromium.org/ open source project and other edge://credits/." The references link to The Chromium Projects and to a list of licensed open source software used in Edge Chromium to date. That's standard practice under Open Source licensing, and I assume (without knowing, because I've never used the Tor browser) that Tor does something similar.
tomscharbach Well this is where we have to agree to disagree. I see it as Tor having taken Firefox ESP (not the Quantum engine itself) and building upon it (or on top of it might be better put) with Mozilla support. Tor developers adding their own "added security/privacy" bells and whistles to it and tied in the opening screen that logs you into Tor Network (which with some reg key changes can be disabled so that the browser can be used without having to access the Tor Network.) Usually when a new stable version of Firefox ESP comes out Tor follows up with a new stable upgrade within a week or so. The change log for Tor 9.0a5 even states "update Firefox to 60.0er" and "This release features important security updates to Firefox." https://blog.torproject.org/new-release-tor-browser-90a4
Even the .exe of Tor in it's browser folder is called firefox.exe (unless they changed it, I last used Tor in May, 2019 but no longer keep the browser on my computer) and all firefox extensions work on it. For me it seems more like Firefox ESR is built off of Quantum engine (formerly Gecko) while Tor is built on top of Firefox ESR which itself is built off of Quantum, and Tor stamping (slowly over time) their name over it (here and there) since it's all open source. Where as Opera based/built their browser since 2013 directly off of Chromium (or Edge is now doing like you mentioned...building directly off of Chromium) instead of say Opera or Edge building on top of Chrome stable which in itself is built off of the Chromium engine. Although I believe Chrome is still mostly closed source (where as Chromium is open source).
There's is...or was...I don't know if it's still in talks of Firefox (Mozilla) merging Tor into their regular Firefox browser as a specialized window of it's own (like the inprivate window but in Firefox case it will open up a private tab that connects you to the Tor network) and adding in the rest of Tor's originally add-on security/privacy codec. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/mozilla-firefox-tor-mode-likely-to-start-as-a-browser-addon/
Tor developers are hard to say. On one side they talk about freedom of speech and allowing people to view websites in private without being monitored or restricted but on another side users have noticed Tors lack of interest in taming or shutting down onion sites known to buy, sell, trade illegal stuff and Tor seems to be anti-NSA to the point of absurdity.
I used Firefox Nightly on/off over the years, but I never clicked with Firefox. Back in the early days of Netscape I used Netscape before IE 1.0 came along and after that I used IE into 2015 before switching to Edge. I use just Edge now and occasional Google Chrome Canary and once in a blue moon I'll download that day's current built version of Chromium (blue Chrome icon) to see if a bug I found in Edge/Chrome Canary is also found in the original Chromium.
- Tom, IMO, at this point in time, no matter the source, they are leaked, premature and absolutely NOT recommend, at all!
Cheers,
Drew
Sent from Windows Phone
