Forum Discussion
Moving Away from MS Access
Interesting how my plugs were promptly deleted by admins and some plugs are going under the radar.
People avoid to tell the expense of hiring the DBA, AND the db license cost. Are we forgetting that the Access is literally free to use with it's own db? Imo modernising Access App is not using some other db engine, since other tools do this anyway. We do not modernise a car by replacing the engine to hydrogen, I think. Silly comparison I know. We just buy a new car.
Similar approach to running Access on the Web is suggesting Citrix, VPN or RDP. That is a nonsense imo. The cost of running all of mentioned infrastructure is high, plus the hidden cost of system downtime. There is no downtime of running Access with built in db, except install/reinstall.
The whole point of Access App is running it in the office environment, over the local LAN, with all Windows desktop bells and whistles. Desktop!
The biggest obstacles for any Access dev going to Web might be this:
- The Desktop bells and whistles are not there any more.
- You'll be completely lost in the Ocean of information.
- The security is in your domain, and that's not Desktop add/remove permission.
- The security involves SSL certificates, which cost money. And your time.
- The authentication is the whole new league, there is an Ocean of options.
- There is no more password expiry from AD, to name one example. The Web
app can easily log any username/password, and send it who knows where.
- The knowledge of Web servers is needed, add the cost and time.
- The load balancing knowledge is needed, same as the above.
- Also Web threats are not to be taken lightly. I witnessed a complete server take over in few seconds.
- And finally, the lawyers or similar can't just take the App into a locked and off-line room. Like they do.
I'm sure there are more obstacles.
And I did not even touch the JavaScript, which is a huge topic! One example, Boostrap and JQuery.
It is not possible to just take some random jQuery library and "plug" it in the Web app.
Just like it is not possible to replace Boostrap with more modern one. Nope. Takes significant effort.
So now you know what I went through 😉
And when shared my work, which I even created on .azurewebsites.net to show it to the World, it was deleted.
So basically, we created the similar as a plug from the above. With a huge difference. Its Open Source.
Which can be taken in the off-line, locked room 😉
Would you like to see it? Politely asking for a permission to add a link. Thanks
PS Not sure why my reply went to above contributor tho, sorry.
For me is all about money.
You pay you do the moving/migration....someone else will do the job and will deliver the desired output/
You don't pay and you try to "evade" the cost....all you will see is obstacles and huge walls.
Web is just another platform and it has its own pros and cons, you just have to do your homework even if you are just to hire someone and just make your choices.
Let me give you a scenario:
Suppose someone builds an application that does the hard job of translating an Access application ...how much would you pay for this functionality (?) .....probably you wouldn't ..so why build the application in the 1st place.
Open Source is about money?
This is the problem:
- we do not see the Applications built by Access devs. Or very few see it. How can we know what the OP needs to be able to advice? We only know it must be the MS.
Obstacles and huge walls exist everywhere. What I provided is not "just another platform" - it takes years to master all of it. With Access, one does not master low level file IO, or pixel positioning. That's the duty of RAD.Here is an example of migrated Access template Personal Account Ledger:
 
How does it look? Is it almost the same? See the business logic?
Took me 3 hours. For ALL of this and not knowing what am I doing. Never built a GL before.The technology removed the necessity of knowing all of the above I've mentioned. If I can do it, anyone can. One needs to see it in action tho, to be able to criticise anything.
Even the Azure deployment is a child play. Here is how it looks like:"git remote add azure https://local/ Git/FTPS credentials@ http://jampy.scm.azurewebsites.net:443/jampy.git"git push azure master"Done. How easy is that!?Azure enabled us to use the TOP technology in the simplest possible way. Do you need Geo-redundancy? Adding load balancing nodes based on location? Sure, all of this is a few clicks away.Mind you, all Cloud providers provide the similar options.You do not need to pay for this functionality, it's already here for free. It is not about paying, but finding what works in the Ocean of technology.To be fair, many people are over complicating. Did anyone built a POC and show it to the Powers that be? Probably not. So, they are blind. Any Access BE can be migrated in minutes, and the complete FE can be built automatically. It is not about the technology, but people. People are creating the technological debt, not the opposite. This is maybe why MS is investing huge money in the Open Source. It is the fountain of free "know how".
The biggest BE we migrated was 25Gb. It was a Japanese proprietary data.DeanBabic, cc tsgiannis. I have no desire to step into a war, but tsgiannis is correct that everything costs (my interpretation of his words). DeanBabic, you gave an example of a "simple" set of steps, but those are only simple if you fully understand what happened. Otherwise, you are delegating to an unknown process or entity.
Going back to my previous comments. The question title was a generic "Moving Away from MS Access". No specific reason was provided except for management direction.
My first recommendation was to push the structure and data to a more secure and centralized location (SQL Server). This cuts at the core of several known weaknesses with Microsoft Access. This avoids SILOs, avoids corruption and allows for high volume and parallel access by multiple technologies.
I have seen the same reaction to Excel. Because it is so easy to create Excel spreadsheets, they easily proliferate, and suddenly, you have multiple unmanaged versions of the truth floating around. That makes management very nervous.
My second recommendation was to look closely at the problem you are trying to solve. If offline access on a windows computer is required, then Access might just be the tool of choice. On the other hand, if it were crucial that everyone in a global organization had instant access on various devices to specific ever-changing information, then an entirely different solution would be required.
The problems are rarely that black and white, and often management wants both solutions somehow melded together. That usually means some form of synchronization, which comes with its own headaches and significant costs.
The problem dictates the solution.
- Being told to do something by someone who does not understand the consequences can be very frustrating. The most dreaded words from leadership...
"Why can't we just..."
Every time I hear this I know I'm in for pain.
I think everyone here is really trying to accomplish the same thing, but in different environments and with different budgets for time and money.
In an environment with decent budgets, relatively simple requirements and limited tech skills, outsourcing to cloud services is a no-brainer.
In an environment with tight budgets and limited time for training, making use of existing resources and skills is a no-brainer.
In an environment with extensive development resources and sufficient time, DIY is a no-brainer.
The problem is no environment is ever consistently one of these things. Priorities shift, revenue streams change, new leaders need to pee on all the trees to mark their spot, and so forth.
