AMD Nested Virtualization Support

Hi,

today I have re-evaluated performance issue on AMD in level 1 guest after enabling nested virtualization and looks that in the insider build 25281.1000 I currently have the issue is gone. I don't know if it was fixed in some previous build, but at least in that one I just mentioned the issue with performance looks to be fully resolved.

However in the official newest stable GA build of Windows 11 the issue is still present.

Hello community

Anyone tested things with Windows 11 22h2 to check :

- If P / E cores antics with Hyper-V enabled has been improved / solved?

- Or let's get crazy, if Zen 4 still has the performance loss issue with nested Hyper-V?

crusy 

Windows 10 is not getting this feature or at least that is what Microsoft has stated in the past. The version of Hyper-V that allows it, is only available in Windows 11 now.

I just upgraded to 21H2 just to find AMD is still not supported, so when will we get this in standard Windows 10?

Hey, I just wanna know if the Nv-v4 series VMs on Azure support nested virtualization yet. I don't mind having to install Windows 11, as long as Microsoft supplies the GPU drivers for the same. For a long time, there was a driver issue with Nv-v4 series VMs; I hope that doesn't repeat with Windows 11. 

I require Docker AND GPU; Docker requires Hyper V; Hyper V requires hardware-enabled nested virtualization. I had a d-v3 VM (Standard D4s v3, to be specific) that supported virtualization pretty well. I was hoping they'd bring that support to the N class VMs too pretty soon, but it has taken quite a while now. When might we expect it to happen? Or do they already? Microsoft docs on the subject seem to imply that the N class doesn't support it yet.

According to this, the official support comes in Windows 11 and Server 2022, and VM version 10, rather than some future build of Windows 10 with VM version 9.3

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/virtualization/hyper-v-on-windows/user-guide/nested-virtualization

Thanks, that's some great feedback.

Shame you had to go Xeon though, but considering :
- TR 5000 being mostly probably cancelled

- TR 5000 Pro being at best delayed, and not exactly cheaper than Xeon

- Sapphire Rapids X being delayed to H2 and DDR5 situation being what it is

- Alder Lake antics with Hyper-V and P/E core management and the memory controller information accuracy being questionnable making it a gamble to invest in a DDR5 mobo
I guess that's where a lot of us are left if we really need lots of RAM and threads...

Out of curiosity, which mobo did you use fot that 4314 build?

I want to give an update to my earlier comments from Oct 06 2021.

I tested again with a released version of Windows 11 (including November updates) as the host. The performance issue on AMD is still there when nesting is enabled and the guest has Hyper-V installed (no nested guest running). Also given the disappointment that AMD has delayed / not launched Threadripper 5000 models, I recently switched to a system with dual socket Intel XEON 4314.

For the test I measured the build time of bullet3 (https://github.com/bulletphysics/bullet3) with VS2019 in the same Hyper-V Windows 10 guest (it was exported from the AMD host and imported on the Intel host).

AMD host, guest without nesting enabled: 33.6 seconds

AMD host, guest with nesting / hyper-v enabled: 45.4 seconds

Intel host, guest without nesting enabled: 29.4 seconds

Intel host, guest with nesting / hyper-v enabled: 30.3 seconds

hansonmi While I would agree that people would have to do it to get Windows 11, they shouldn't have to do it once they were already able to use it in Windows 10 

And after Microsoft said they got it working and were going to bring support for us... Only to go against that and sweep it under the rug 

Surely anyone can imagine the frustrations that would end up bringing after being let down & disappointed since that is actually an arbitrary line drawn in the sand considering that it was working for both Intel & AMD chips and they even asked about how far back 'before' Zen were people thinking. 

This time there can't be that two-sides argument. 

Daasein

The same could really be said when it came to a lot of the windows upgrades where they dropped support and those on older hardware just didn't meet the requirements. One of the major differences then vs now (and starting with Windows 7 -> Windows 10) was the upgrades weren't free.

There is nothing that is stopping anyone with unsupported hardware from dowloading the ISO from the Microsoft Installer they let you download and installing that on machines that don't meet the requiements. It won't do an upgrade, but it will install. This is what i did on a 3rd gen 6-core intel that had windows 10 and as long as you registered and activated that copy of windows 10 on your machine you want to install windows 11 on it will activate after you install the ISO. 

I have done this to 2 of my machines that didn't meet processor requirements and/or the TPM 2.0 requirements. Works just fine and clean install. You just need to back your stuff up first. 

Microsoft said that folks could do this, but you may not get updates or support. However, they release new ISOs that have patches in them for every major release so technically you could always go that route if you need updates and are not getting them. And honstly, windows 10 will be out of support at some point anyways so that is why i did this on my old PCs... would rather get a newer one that runs and has some security enhancements than stick with something that will eventually just be obsolete like Windows Vista and Windows 7.