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Secure Time Seeding on DCs: A Note from the Field

Chris_Cartwright's avatar
Chris_Cartwright
Icon for Microsoft rankMicrosoft
Sep 09, 2024

        Hello all, Chris from Directory Services here again.  Lately, we’ve seen an increase in cases where DCs (Domain Controllers) suffer issues with time jumps, many times into the future.   As everyone here knows, time synchronization is critical for Active Directory and other applications.  As time has passed (hyuk hyuk), we’ve seen some interesting scenarios from simple misconfigurations to the Great Rollback.  Regardless of the cause, these issues were capable of causing huge outages for customers, so in Server 2008, we released a new default value for w32Time’s protection configuration. 

 

        MaxPosPhaseCorrection and MaxNegPhaseCorrection defaults were changed from “take literally anything” to 48 hours.  We’ve also released various guidance on configuring Domain Controllers for NTP:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-server-2003/cc773263(v=ws.10)

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/support-boundary-high-accuracy-time

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/configuring-your-pdce-with-alternate-time-sources/ba-p/394945

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/configuring-an-authoritative-time-server-with-group-policy-using/ba-p/395806

 

So what brings us here?

        Well, with Server 2016, came Secure Time Seeding (STS).  Further commentary addressed this release as a more of a client solution and not as an accurate enough solution for Active Directory.  However, Secure Time Seeding is enabled by default on all currently supported Windows Server OSes.  Furthermore, it does not honor MaxPosPhaseCorrection or MaxNegPhaseCorrection.  CSS has seen high production impact at customer sites due to STS setting an incorrect time when TLS connections are made to woefully misconfigured devices.

 

Wait, what?

        You can probably see where this is going.  We urge all Active Directory administrators out there to take this information and consider whether this is something you want or not.  From the w32time blog post above:

If you would rather trust your system clock than time data generated from your SSL traffic and want to forgo any benefit this feature gives you, we got your back. Set the following registry value to 0 and reboot your machine and the Secure Time Seeding feature will be disabled. (Standard warning about exercising care while modifying registry applies here).

Registry Key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time\Config

Value Name: UtilizeSslTimeData

Value Type: REG_DWORD

 

        To compound the issue even further, there is no logging that will point to STS as having set the time.  The only way to know that it made the change is to already have w32tm debug logging enabled before it happens where you would see something like this:

152929 22:35:45.3014352s - ClockDispln Discipline: *SET*SECURE*TIME*

Running w32tm debug logging 24/7 is not going to be something we would ever recommend unless we absolutely had to, similar to most other debug logging. 

 

So, where do I stand?

Here’s a command that will allow you to see the value on all your DCs:


For /f %i IN ('dsquery server -o rdn') do REG QUERY \\%i\HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\W32Time\Config /v UtilizeSslTimeData /t REG_DWORD

        In conclusion, while Secure Time Seeding offers potential benefits, it is possible for issues to arise with Active Directory.  Administrators must weigh these considerations carefully when deciding whether to disable this feature. Additionally, consider that this can impact non-DC servers in productions as well.  The decision should be based on the specific needs and configurations of their environment.  

 

Chris “All this Time” Cartwright

 

References:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/client-clock-reverts-to-previous-time

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/configure-w32ime-against-huge-time-offset

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/core-infrastructure-and-security/fixing-when-your-domain-traveled-back-in-time-the-great-system/ba-p/255877

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/core-infrastructure-and-security/domain-time-synchronization-in-the-age-of-working-from-home/ba-p/1440820

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/bg-p/AskDS/label-name/Time

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/bg-p/AskDS/label-name/w32time

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/blogs/w32time/secure-time-seeding-improving-time-keeping-in-windows

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/client-clock-reverts-to-previous-time

Updated Jan 25, 2025
Version 3.0
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3 Comments

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  • Chris_Cartwright's avatar
    Chris_Cartwright
    Icon for Microsoft rankMicrosoft
    Sep 19, 2024

    stefan1990 If you are concerned that this feature could impact your environment, and you have full faith and confidence in your current NTP design, yes, you would likely want to configure this to be disabled on all DCs and members.  

  • stefan1990's avatar
    stefan1990
    Copper Contributor
    Sep 19, 2024

    So to understand this correctly. This would needed to be set on all DCs and members if we wanted to totally avoid this issue?

  • prakashjha's avatar
    prakashjha
    Brass Contributor
    Sep 14, 2024

    This issue really had me spinning in circles and I was unable to determine the reason why one of our DCs suddenly had its time move ahead by 6 months and then reset back.

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So, you've seen some talk about Secure Time Seeding and time jumps.  What's the deal?

","body":"

        Hello all, Chris from Directory Services here again.  Lately, we’ve seen an increase in cases where DCs (Domain Controllers) suffer issues with time jumps, many times into the future.   As everyone here knows, time synchronization is critical for Active Directory and other applications.  As time has passed (hyuk hyuk), we’ve seen some interesting scenarios from simple misconfigurations to the Great Rollback.  Regardless of the cause, these issues were capable of causing huge outages for customers, so in Server 2008, we released a new default value for w32Time’s protection configuration. 

\n

 

\n

        MaxPosPhaseCorrection and MaxNegPhaseCorrection defaults were changed from “take literally anything” to 48 hours.  We’ve also released various guidance on configuring Domain Controllers for NTP:

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-server-2003/cc773263(v=ws.10)

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/support-boundary-high-accuracy-time

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/configuring-your-pdce-with-alternate-time-sources/ba-p/394945

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/configuring-an-authoritative-time-server-with-group-policy-using/ba-p/395806

\n

 

\n

So what brings us here?

\n

        Well, with Server 2016, came Secure Time Seeding (STS).  Further commentary addressed this release as a more of a client solution and not as an accurate enough solution for Active Directory.  However, Secure Time Seeding is enabled by default on all currently supported Windows Server OSes.  Furthermore, it does not honor MaxPosPhaseCorrection or MaxNegPhaseCorrection.  CSS has seen high production impact at customer sites due to STS setting an incorrect time when TLS connections are made to woefully misconfigured devices.

\n

 

\n

Wait, what?

\n

        You can probably see where this is going.  We urge all Active Directory administrators out there to take this information and consider whether this is something you want or not.  From the w32time blog post above:

\n

If you would rather trust your system clock than time data generated from your SSL traffic and want to forgo any benefit this feature gives you, we got your back. Set the following registry value to 0 and reboot your machine and the Secure Time Seeding feature will be disabled. (Standard warning about exercising care while modifying registry applies here).

\n

Registry Key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\W32Time\\Config

\n

Value Name: UtilizeSslTimeData

\n

Value Type: REG_DWORD

\n

 

\n

        To compound the issue even further, there is no logging that will point to STS as having set the time.  The only way to know that it made the change is to already have w32tm debug logging enabled before it happens where you would see something like this:

\n
152929 22:35:45.3014352s - ClockDispln Discipline: *SET*SECURE*TIME*
\n

Running w32tm debug logging 24/7 is not going to be something we would ever recommend unless we absolutely had to, similar to most other debug logging. 

\n

 

\n

So, where do I stand?

\n

Here’s a command that will allow you to see the value on all your DCs:

\n

For /f %i IN ('dsquery server -o rdn') do REG QUERY \\\\%i\\HKLM\\SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\W32Time\\Config /v UtilizeSslTimeData /t REG_DWORD
\n

        In conclusion, while Secure Time Seeding offers potential benefits, it is possible for issues to arise with Active Directory.  Administrators must weigh these considerations carefully when deciding whether to disable this feature. Additionally, consider that this can impact non-DC servers in productions as well.  The decision should be based on the specific needs and configurations of their environment.  

\n

 

\n

Chris “All this Time” Cartwright

\n

 

\n

References:

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/client-clock-reverts-to-previous-time

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/configure-w32ime-against-huge-time-offset

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/core-infrastructure-and-security/fixing-when-your-domain-traveled-back-in-time-the-great-system/ba-p/255877

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/core-infrastructure-and-security/domain-time-synchronization-in-the-age-of-working-from-home/ba-p/1440820

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/bg-p/AskDS/label-name/Time

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/bg-p/AskDS/label-name/w32time

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/blogs/w32time/secure-time-seeding-improving-time-keeping-in-windows

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/client-clock-reverts-to-previous-time

","body@stringLength":"8630","rawBody":"

        Hello all, Chris from Directory Services here again.  Lately, we’ve seen an increase in cases where DCs (Domain Controllers) suffer issues with time jumps, many times into the future.   As everyone here knows, time synchronization is critical for Active Directory and other applications.  As time has passed (hyuk hyuk), we’ve seen some interesting scenarios from simple misconfigurations to the Great Rollback.  Regardless of the cause, these issues were capable of causing huge outages for customers, so in Server 2008, we released a new default value for w32Time’s protection configuration. 

\n

 

\n

        MaxPosPhaseCorrection and MaxNegPhaseCorrection defaults were changed from “take literally anything” to 48 hours.  We’ve also released various guidance on configuring Domain Controllers for NTP:

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions/windows/it-pro/windows-server-2003/cc773263(v=ws.10)

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/support-boundary-high-accuracy-time

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/configuring-your-pdce-with-alternate-time-sources/ba-p/394945

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/configuring-an-authoritative-time-server-with-group-policy-using/ba-p/395806

\n

 

\n

So what brings us here?

\n

        Well, with Server 2016, came Secure Time Seeding (STS).  Further commentary addressed this release as a more of a client solution and not as an accurate enough solution for Active Directory.  However, Secure Time Seeding is enabled by default on all currently supported Windows Server OSes.  Furthermore, it does not honor MaxPosPhaseCorrection or MaxNegPhaseCorrection.  CSS has seen high production impact at customer sites due to STS setting an incorrect time when TLS connections are made to woefully misconfigured devices.

\n

 

\n

Wait, what?

\n

        You can probably see where this is going.  We urge all Active Directory administrators out there to take this information and consider whether this is something you want or not.  From the w32time blog post above:

\n

If you would rather trust your system clock than time data generated from your SSL traffic and want to forgo any benefit this feature gives you, we got your back. Set the following registry value to 0 and reboot your machine and the Secure Time Seeding feature will be disabled. (Standard warning about exercising care while modifying registry applies here).

\n

Registry Key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\\SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\W32Time\\Config

\n

Value Name: UtilizeSslTimeData

\n

Value Type: REG_DWORD

\n

 

\n

        To compound the issue even further, there is no logging that will point to STS as having set the time.  The only way to know that it made the change is to already have w32tm debug logging enabled before it happens where you would see something like this:

\n
152929 22:35:45.3014352s - ClockDispln Discipline: *SET*SECURE*TIME*
\n

Running w32tm debug logging 24/7 is not going to be something we would ever recommend unless we absolutely had to, similar to most other debug logging. 

\n

 

\n

So, where do I stand?

\n

Here’s a command that will allow you to see the value on all your DCs:

\n

For /f %i IN ('dsquery server -o rdn') do REG QUERY \\\\%i\\HKLM\\SYSTEM\\CurrentControlSet\\Services\\W32Time\\Config /v UtilizeSslTimeData /t REG_DWORD
\n

        In conclusion, while Secure Time Seeding offers potential benefits, it is possible for issues to arise with Active Directory.  Administrators must weigh these considerations carefully when deciding whether to disable this feature. Additionally, consider that this can impact non-DC servers in productions as well.  The decision should be based on the specific needs and configurations of their environment.  

\n

 

\n

Chris “All this Time” Cartwright

\n

 

\n

References:

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/client-clock-reverts-to-previous-time

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/configure-w32ime-against-huge-time-offset

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/core-infrastructure-and-security/fixing-when-your-domain-traveled-back-in-time-the-great-system/ba-p/255877

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/core-infrastructure-and-security/domain-time-synchronization-in-the-age-of-working-from-home/ba-p/1440820

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/bg-p/AskDS/label-name/Time

\n

https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/ask-the-directory-services-team/bg-p/AskDS/label-name/w32time

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/archive/blogs/w32time/secure-time-seeding-improving-time-keeping-in-windows

\n

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/troubleshoot/windows-server/active-directory/client-clock-reverts-to-previous-time

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So, you've seen some talk about Secure Time Seeding and time jumps.  What's the deal?

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stefan1990 If you are concerned that this feature could impact your environment, and you have full faith and confidence in your current NTP design, yes, you would likely want to configure this to be disabled on all DCs and members.  

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So to understand this correctly. This would needed to be set on all DCs and members if we wanted to totally avoid this issue?

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This issue really had me spinning in circles and I was unable to determine the reason why one of our DCs suddenly had its time move ahead by 6 months and then reset back.

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