OneDrive Client, Files on Demand and Syncing large libraries
I thought I'd post some observations regarding the OneDrive sync client we've observed that aren't documented anywhere but we needed to figure out when planning a massive move to SharePoint from on-p...
I think you asked two key questions: "Do all 100,000+ files need to all be in the same library? do they have to all be brought down locally?"
Even though cloud storage seems nearly free nowadays documents still need to be organized. They still have a lifecycle. I suspect that it is pretty rare that many groups in a company will need access to 100,000 documents this month or this year. If things are organized then each group only needs to sync a smaller number of current document libraries. Put the old stuff in archive libraries and use the web browser where you can use the SharePoint search.
I can think of almost no cases where people would need to bring down 100,000 files locally. You only need them locally if you aren't connected to the internet and, in today's world, most of us are seldom without internet. And, if you are somewhere where good internet isn't widely available, trying to sync 100,000 files locally is probably a lost cause.
The thing that gets me most about syncing locally is the security risk. If all these files "must" be synced locally then one would assume they are important. If you have dozens of people syncing all these files to their laptops then there is a good chance that, sooner or later, one will be lost or stolen. Once someone has physical possession of the laptop you have to assume that they will have access to all the files on it. If there is anything sensitive or juicy there you have to be prepared to see it in the news.
There are a few things I found that help:
I tell our people to always have Files on Demand turned on. It reduces the security risk, network traffic, and CPU usage.
Turn on Storage Sense. We tend to use the same files over and over again and then work on different ones for a while. With appropriate settings for Storage Sense and Files on Demand turned on you can reduce security risk and still almost always have the files you want local. Besides some people never check their C: Drives and then start having problems when it fills up.
Don't use special characters other than - or _ in filenames. At some point you will encounter some application that doesn't like it. I had one person who's OneDrive always said "processing" It turned out he liked to use ~ in filenames and the OneDrive client didn't like that. That can also happen if Windows itself puts a ~temp file in a folder that is synced.
We have files-on-demand enforced by Group Policy on all machines. Still having random sync issues.
I tested a Document Library sync that has 600,000 objects. Took about 90 minutes to sync, then my OneDrive client got stuck at "processing changes". When I try to reset OneDrive, it gives an error that it couldn't shut down OneDrive. I can't end task the OneDrive.exe in task manager, and my sync client is broken at this point. I'm having the same experience with libraries with 100,000 objects.
I have a ticket open with support, but I'm not expecting much.
Still having issues syncing a 100,000 item Document Library after reinstalling OneDrive and cleaning up the files on the C:\ drive. The library will sync and complete then get stuck at processing changes and its dead. Starting to lose all confidence in this being a solution as a replacement for network shares.
The release notes on the latest OneDrive client mentions a change to the "processing changes" indicator. I updated my client and will keep an eye on activity.
Hopefully that will put an end to your client processing changes to files/folders in your OneDrive that are not synced to your computer.
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I thought I'd post some observations regarding the OneDrive sync client we've observed that aren't documented anywhere but we needed to figure out when planning a massive move to SharePoint from on-premise file servers:
Limits:
Microsoft documents that you shouldn't sync more than 300,000 files across all libraries that the client is connected to, but there was no documentation about Files on Demand limits, and we have observed the following:
The OneDrive client will fail when the dat file that stores object metadata reaches exactly 2GB in size (%localappdata%\\Microsoft\\OneDrive\\settings\\Business1). Now, while Microsoft says you shouldn't sync more than 300,000 files, you can connect using files on demand to libraries that contain more than this. The trick here is that in this case, the total number of files and folders matter, lets call them collectively \"objects\". (Interestingly, when you first connect to a library and the client says \"Process changes\" and gives you a count, \"changes\" is the total number of objects in the library that it's bringing down using files on demand and storing in the dat file.)
My suspicion is that since the OneDrive client is still 32bit, it's still subject to certain 32bit process restrictions, but I don't really know. What matters in this case is that up until build 19.033.0218.0009 (19.033.0218.0006 insiders build), the client would fill up the dat file and reach the 2GB limit after about 700-800,000 objects. After build 19.033.0218.0009, it appears that the client has been optimized and no longer needs to store quite as much metadata about each object, \"increasing\" the upper limit of files on demand. (It seems that in general, each object takes up just over 1KB of data in the dat file, putting the limit somewhere just under 2 million objects). Keep in mind, this is not per library, this is across all libraries, including OneDrive for Business (personal storage), SharePoint Document Libraries, etc.
Performance:
The client has made some significant improvements in performance quickly as they refine each new build, but there are some things to be aware of before you start connecting clients to large libraries:
It. takes. forever.
The more objects in a library, the longer it's going to take for the client to build it's local cache of files on demand copies of all the items in the library. It seems that in general, the client can process about 50 objects per second, if you were connecting to a library or multiple libraries that had 1.4 million objects, it will take around 8 hours before the client is \"caught up\".
During the time that the content is being built out locally, Windows processes will also consume a large quantity of system resources. Specifically, explorer.exe and the Search Indexer will consume a lot of CPU and disk as they process the data that the client is building out.
The more resources you have, the better this experience will be. On a moderately powered brand new Latitude with an i5, 8GB of Memory and an SSD OS Drive, the machine's CPU was pretty heavily taxed (over 80% CPU) for over 8 hours connecting to libraries with around 1.5 million objects. On a much more powerful PC with an i7 and 16GB of memory, the strain was closer to 30% CPU, which wouldn't cripple an end user while they wait for the client and Windows to finish processing data. But, most organizations don't deploy $2000 computers to everyone, so be mindful when planning your Team-Site automount policies.
Restarts can be painful. when the OS boots back up OneDrive has to figure out what changed in the libraries in the cloud and compare that to it's local cache. I've seen this process take anywhere from 15 minutes to over an hour after restarts, depending on how many objects are in the cache.
Also, if you're connected to a large number of objects in the local cache, you can expect OneDrive to routinely use about a third of CPU on an i5 processor trying to keep itself up to date. This doesn't appear to interfere with the overall performance of the client, but it's an expensive process.
Hopefully over time this will continue to improve, especially as more organizations like mine move massive amounts of data up into SharePoint and retire on premise file servers. If I had to make a design suggestion or two:
- If SharePoint could pre-build a generic metadata file that a client could download on first connection, it would significantly reduce the time it takes to set up a client initially.
- Roll the Activity Log into an API that would allow the client to poll for changes since the last restart (this could also significantly improve the performance of migration products, as they wouldn't have to scan every object in a library when performing delta syncs, and would reduce the load on Microsoft's API endpoints when organizations perform mass migrations)
- Windows to the best of my knowledge doesn't have a mechanism to track changes on disk, i.e. \"what recursively changed in this directory tree in the last x timeframe\", if it were possible to do this, Windows and SharePoint could eliminate most of the overhead that the OneDrive client has to shoulder on it's own to keep itself up to date.
Speaking to OneDrive engineers at Ignite last year, support for larger libraries is high on their radar, and it's apparent in this latest production release that they are keeping their word on prioritizing iterative improvements for large libraries. If you haven't yet started mass data migrations into SharePoint, I can't stress enough the importance of deeply analyzing your data and understanding what people need access to and structuring your libraries and permissions accordingly. We used PowerBI to analyze our file server content and it was an invaluable tool in our planning.
Happy to chat with anyone struggling with similar issues and share what we did to resolve them. Happy SharePointing!
P.S., shoutout to the OneDrive Product Team, you guys are doing great, love what you've done with the OneDrive client, but for IT Pros struggling with competing product limits and business requirements, documenting behind the scenes technical data and sharing more of the roadmap would be incredibly valuable in helping our companies adopt or plan to adopt OneDrive and SharePoint.
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We have files-on-demand enforced by Group Policy on all machines. Still having random sync issues.
I tested a Document Library sync that has 600,000 objects. Took about 90 minutes to sync, then my OneDrive client got stuck at \"processing changes\". When I try to reset OneDrive, it gives an error that it couldn't shut down OneDrive. I can't end task the OneDrive.exe in task manager, and my sync client is broken at this point. I'm having the same experience with libraries with 100,000 objects.
I have a ticket open with support, but I'm not expecting much.
","body@stringLength":"872","rawBody":"
We have files-on-demand enforced by Group Policy on all machines. Still having random sync issues.
I tested a Document Library sync that has 600,000 objects. Took about 90 minutes to sync, then my OneDrive client got stuck at \"processing changes\". When I try to reset OneDrive, it gives an error that it couldn't shut down OneDrive. I can't end task the OneDrive.exe in task manager, and my sync client is broken at this point. I'm having the same experience with libraries with 100,000 objects.
I have a ticket open with support, but I'm not expecting much.
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Nothing major that will simply \"solve\" the problem unfortunately.
Couple questions:
What Client version are your users running?
Does the library contain folders with broken inheritance?
How many users are syncing the library simultaneously?
Does the library have a high rate of change? (i.e. lots of files being modified in many different folders) or is it a lot of old static content?
","body@stringLength":"676","rawBody":"
Nothing major that will simply \"solve\" the problem unfortunately.
Couple questions:
What Client version are your users running?
Does the library contain folders with broken inheritance?
How many users are syncing the library simultaneously?
Does the library have a high rate of change? (i.e. lots of files being modified in many different folders) or is it a lot of old static content?
","author":{"__ref":"User:user:55317"},"isEscalated":null,"postTime":"2020-08-17T13:19:35.132-07:00"},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1594380":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","id":"message:1594380","revisionNum":1,"uid":1594380,"depth":3,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:OneDriveforBusiness"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:376200"},"subject":"Re: OneDrive Client, Files on Demand and Syncing large libraries","readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1594380"},"body":"
The latest Production ring client: 20.134.0705.0008
No broken inheritance.
Around 5-10 users syncing at the same time.
Yes, high rate of change.
I gave myself permissions and started syncing the library and I'm having similar issues. So I don't think its machine related. I can't even reset OneDrive now, it gives an error that is couldn't shut down OneDrive.
","body@stringLength":"643","rawBody":"
The latest Production ring client: 20.134.0705.0008
No broken inheritance.
Around 5-10 users syncing at the same time.
Yes, high rate of change.
I gave myself permissions and started syncing the library and I'm having similar issues. So I don't think its machine related. I can't even reset OneDrive now, it gives an error that is couldn't shut down OneDrive.
","author":{"__ref":"User:user:92167"},"isEscalated":null,"postTime":"2020-08-17T13:54:23.299-07:00","parent":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:1594259"}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1594394":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","id":"message:1594394","revisionNum":1,"uid":1594394,"depth":4,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:OneDriveforBusiness"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:376200"},"subject":"Re: OneDrive Client, Files on Demand and Syncing large libraries","readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1594394"},"body":"
Its likely the rate of change that's causing you the most problems. Every time something changes (especially in a file copy scenario), OneDrive has to re-scan everything that's on disk to ensure that it hasn't lost a file somewhere (i.e. \"Was this thing renamed? or was it moved? or both?\"). When multiple machines are moving a lot around, it exponentially increases the local demand on each individual machine. The only way to alleviate this is to break up the content across multiple libraries. Do all 100,000+ files need to all be in the same library? do they have to all be brought down locally? if you are lucky enough to answer no to both of those questions, the solution is simple: break up the content into smaller libraries and make stale data online-only (disable sync through in the library settings).
Unfortunately, this isn't exactly OneDrive's fault, Windows still has no mechanism where an app could simply subscribe to a subsystem and say \"tell me anytime something changes on disk, including all the context\". That leaves it with no other alternative than to literally go searching the disk every time anything updates to make sure it hasn't lost anything... but if it gets overwhelmed with too many changes it simply cant keep up.
","body@stringLength":"1529","rawBody":"
Its likely the rate of change that's causing you the most problems. Every time something changes (especially in a file copy scenario), OneDrive has to re-scan everything that's on disk to ensure that it hasn't lost a file somewhere (i.e. \"Was this thing renamed? or was it moved? or both?\"). When multiple machines are moving a lot around, it exponentially increases the local demand on each individual machine. The only way to alleviate this is to break up the content across multiple libraries. Do all 100,000+ files need to all be in the same library? do they have to all be brought down locally? if you are lucky enough to answer no to both of those questions, the solution is simple: break up the content into smaller libraries and make stale data online-only (disable sync through in the library settings).
Unfortunately, this isn't exactly OneDrive's fault, Windows still has no mechanism where an app could simply subscribe to a subsystem and say \"tell me anytime something changes on disk, including all the context\". That leaves it with no other alternative than to literally go searching the disk every time anything updates to make sure it hasn't lost anything... but if it gets overwhelmed with too many changes it simply cant keep up.
","author":{"__ref":"User:user:55317"},"isEscalated":null,"postTime":"2020-08-17T14:05:06.553-07:00","parent":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:1594380"}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1596137":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","id":"message:1596137","revisionNum":1,"uid":1596137,"depth":5,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:OneDriveforBusiness"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:376200"},"subject":"Re: OneDrive Client, Files on Demand and Syncing large libraries","readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1596137"},"body":"
I think you asked two key questions: \"Do all 100,000+ files need to all be in the same library? do they have to all be brought down locally?\"
Even though cloud storage seems nearly free nowadays documents still need to be organized. They still have a lifecycle. I suspect that it is pretty rare that many groups in a company will need access to 100,000 documents this month or this year. If things are organized then each group only needs to sync a smaller number of current document libraries. Put the old stuff in archive libraries and use the web browser where you can use the SharePoint search.
I can think of almost no cases where people would need to bring down 100,000 files locally. You only need them locally if you aren't connected to the internet and, in today's world, most of us are seldom without internet. And, if you are somewhere where good internet isn't widely available, trying to sync 100,000 files locally is probably a lost cause.
The thing that gets me most about syncing locally is the security risk. If all these files \"must\" be synced locally then one would assume they are important. If you have dozens of people syncing all these files to their laptops then there is a good chance that, sooner or later, one will be lost or stolen. Once someone has physical possession of the laptop you have to assume that they will have access to all the files on it. If there is anything sensitive or juicy there you have to be prepared to see it in the news.
There are a few things I found that help:
I tell our people to always have Files on Demand turned on. It reduces the security risk, network traffic, and CPU usage.
Turn on Storage Sense. We tend to use the same files over and over again and then work on different ones for a while. With appropriate settings for Storage Sense and Files on Demand turned on you can reduce security risk and still almost always have the files you want local. Besides some people never check their C: Drives and then start having problems when it fills up.
Don't use special characters other than - or _ in filenames. At some point you will encounter some application that doesn't like it. I had one person who's OneDrive always said \"processing\" It turned out he liked to use ~ in filenames and the OneDrive client didn't like that. That can also happen if Windows itself puts a ~temp file in a folder that is synced.
","body@stringLength":"2902","rawBody":"
I think you asked two key questions: \"Do all 100,000+ files need to all be in the same library? do they have to all be brought down locally?\"
Even though cloud storage seems nearly free nowadays documents still need to be organized. They still have a lifecycle. I suspect that it is pretty rare that many groups in a company will need access to 100,000 documents this month or this year. If things are organized then each group only needs to sync a smaller number of current document libraries. Put the old stuff in archive libraries and use the web browser where you can use the SharePoint search.
I can think of almost no cases where people would need to bring down 100,000 files locally. You only need them locally if you aren't connected to the internet and, in today's world, most of us are seldom without internet. And, if you are somewhere where good internet isn't widely available, trying to sync 100,000 files locally is probably a lost cause.
The thing that gets me most about syncing locally is the security risk. If all these files \"must\" be synced locally then one would assume they are important. If you have dozens of people syncing all these files to their laptops then there is a good chance that, sooner or later, one will be lost or stolen. Once someone has physical possession of the laptop you have to assume that they will have access to all the files on it. If there is anything sensitive or juicy there you have to be prepared to see it in the news.
There are a few things I found that help:
I tell our people to always have Files on Demand turned on. It reduces the security risk, network traffic, and CPU usage.
Turn on Storage Sense. We tend to use the same files over and over again and then work on different ones for a while. With appropriate settings for Storage Sense and Files on Demand turned on you can reduce security risk and still almost always have the files you want local. Besides some people never check their C: Drives and then start having problems when it fills up.
Don't use special characters other than - or _ in filenames. At some point you will encounter some application that doesn't like it. I had one person who's OneDrive always said \"processing\" It turned out he liked to use ~ in filenames and the OneDrive client didn't like that. That can also happen if Windows itself puts a ~temp file in a folder that is synced.
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Still having issues syncing a 100,000 item Document Library after reinstalling OneDrive and cleaning up the files on the C:\\ drive. The library will sync and complete then get stuck at processing changes and its dead. Starting to lose all confidence in this being a solution as a replacement for network shares.
","body@stripHtml({\"removeProcessingText\":false,\"removeSpoilerMarkup\":false,\"removeTocMarkup\":false,\"truncateLength\":200})@stringLength":"208","kudosSumWeight":0,"postTime":"2020-08-24T18:02:19.863-07:00","lastPublishTime":"2020-08-24T18:02:19.863-07:00","metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":7681},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"isEscalated":null,"solution":false,"entityType":"FORUM_REPLY","eventPath":"category:OneDriveforBusiness/category:products-services/category:communities/community:gxcuf89792board:OneDriveforBusiness/message:376200/message:1609486","replies":{"__typename":"MessageConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[{"__typename":"MessageEdge","cursor":"MjQuMTF8Mi4xfGl8M3wxMzI6MHxpbnQsMTYxNjA4NiwxNjE2MDg2","node":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:1616086"}}]},"customFields":[],"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","edges":[],"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}}},"ModerationData:moderation_data:1616086":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:1616086","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"User:user:235411":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:235411","uid":235411,"login":"Mike Williams","biography":null,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2018-10-28T19:37:22.103-07:00","confirmEmailStatus":null,"registrationAccessLevel":null,"ssoRegistrationFields":[]},"deleted":false,"email":"","avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/s/gxcuf89792/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-8.svg"},"rank":{"__ref":"Rank:rank:35"},"messagesCount":124,"kudosGivenCount":43,"kudosReceivedCount":81,"kudosWeight":1,"ssoId":null,"followersCount":null,"solutionsCount":6,"entityType":"USER","eventPath":"community:gxcuf89792/user:235411"},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1616086":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","uid":1616086,"id":"message:1616086","revisionNum":1,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:92167"},"readOnly":false,"repliesCount":2,"depth":8,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:OneDriveforBusiness"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:1609486"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:376200"},"subject":"Re: OneDrive Client, Files on Demand and Syncing large libraries","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1616086"},"body":"
The release notes on the latest OneDrive client mentions a change to the \"processing changes\" indicator. I updated my client and will keep an eye on activity.
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OneDrive Client, Files on Demand and Syncing large libraries","moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1700299"},"body":"Hopefully that will put an end to your client processing changes to files/folders in your OneDrive that are not synced to your 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