OneDrive Client, Files on Demand and Syncing large libraries
I thought I'd post some observations regarding the OneDrive sync client we've observed that aren't documented anywhere but we needed to figure out when planning a massive move to SharePoint from on-p...
One thing I have noticed when people's OneDrive always says it is is processing changes is that they sometimes have .tmp files on their computers that won't sync. If they have "Hide protected operating system files" checked they won't even see them.
I have had people uncheck that box and delete all the .tmp files they find. The "processing changes" that has gone on for days then stops.
That won't solve your problem but it could well be happening with some of your users.
John Twohig I will look out for tmp files thank you.
I am also in the process of synchronizing a Synology NAS with the customer's OneDrive "File Server" library using the cloud sync app installed on the NAS itself. The plan is to utilize local file shares for the users instead of syncing via the OneDrive desktop app. Then just let the NAS handle the rest. For offsite use they can use the browser. I will disable sync button on the customer's tenant/OneDrive/SharePoint admin center.
Wil setting Win10 to clear OneDrive cached files every day ease the OneDrive sync issue?
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I thought I'd post some observations regarding the OneDrive sync client we've observed that aren't documented anywhere but we needed to figure out when planning a massive move to SharePoint from on-premise file servers:
Limits:
Microsoft documents that you shouldn't sync more than 300,000 files across all libraries that the client is connected to, but there was no documentation about Files on Demand limits, and we have observed the following:
The OneDrive client will fail when the dat file that stores object metadata reaches exactly 2GB in size (%localappdata%\\Microsoft\\OneDrive\\settings\\Business1). Now, while Microsoft says you shouldn't sync more than 300,000 files, you can connect using files on demand to libraries that contain more than this. The trick here is that in this case, the total number of files and folders matter, lets call them collectively \"objects\". (Interestingly, when you first connect to a library and the client says \"Process changes\" and gives you a count, \"changes\" is the total number of objects in the library that it's bringing down using files on demand and storing in the dat file.)
My suspicion is that since the OneDrive client is still 32bit, it's still subject to certain 32bit process restrictions, but I don't really know. What matters in this case is that up until build 19.033.0218.0009 (19.033.0218.0006 insiders build), the client would fill up the dat file and reach the 2GB limit after about 700-800,000 objects. After build 19.033.0218.0009, it appears that the client has been optimized and no longer needs to store quite as much metadata about each object, \"increasing\" the upper limit of files on demand. (It seems that in general, each object takes up just over 1KB of data in the dat file, putting the limit somewhere just under 2 million objects). Keep in mind, this is not per library, this is across all libraries, including OneDrive for Business (personal storage), SharePoint Document Libraries, etc.
Performance:
The client has made some significant improvements in performance quickly as they refine each new build, but there are some things to be aware of before you start connecting clients to large libraries:
It. takes. forever.
The more objects in a library, the longer it's going to take for the client to build it's local cache of files on demand copies of all the items in the library. It seems that in general, the client can process about 50 objects per second, if you were connecting to a library or multiple libraries that had 1.4 million objects, it will take around 8 hours before the client is \"caught up\".
During the time that the content is being built out locally, Windows processes will also consume a large quantity of system resources. Specifically, explorer.exe and the Search Indexer will consume a lot of CPU and disk as they process the data that the client is building out.
The more resources you have, the better this experience will be. On a moderately powered brand new Latitude with an i5, 8GB of Memory and an SSD OS Drive, the machine's CPU was pretty heavily taxed (over 80% CPU) for over 8 hours connecting to libraries with around 1.5 million objects. On a much more powerful PC with an i7 and 16GB of memory, the strain was closer to 30% CPU, which wouldn't cripple an end user while they wait for the client and Windows to finish processing data. But, most organizations don't deploy $2000 computers to everyone, so be mindful when planning your Team-Site automount policies.
Restarts can be painful. when the OS boots back up OneDrive has to figure out what changed in the libraries in the cloud and compare that to it's local cache. I've seen this process take anywhere from 15 minutes to over an hour after restarts, depending on how many objects are in the cache.
Also, if you're connected to a large number of objects in the local cache, you can expect OneDrive to routinely use about a third of CPU on an i5 processor trying to keep itself up to date. This doesn't appear to interfere with the overall performance of the client, but it's an expensive process.
Hopefully over time this will continue to improve, especially as more organizations like mine move massive amounts of data up into SharePoint and retire on premise file servers. If I had to make a design suggestion or two:
- If SharePoint could pre-build a generic metadata file that a client could download on first connection, it would significantly reduce the time it takes to set up a client initially.
- Roll the Activity Log into an API that would allow the client to poll for changes since the last restart (this could also significantly improve the performance of migration products, as they wouldn't have to scan every object in a library when performing delta syncs, and would reduce the load on Microsoft's API endpoints when organizations perform mass migrations)
- Windows to the best of my knowledge doesn't have a mechanism to track changes on disk, i.e. \"what recursively changed in this directory tree in the last x timeframe\", if it were possible to do this, Windows and SharePoint could eliminate most of the overhead that the OneDrive client has to shoulder on it's own to keep itself up to date.
Speaking to OneDrive engineers at Ignite last year, support for larger libraries is high on their radar, and it's apparent in this latest production release that they are keeping their word on prioritizing iterative improvements for large libraries. If you haven't yet started mass data migrations into SharePoint, I can't stress enough the importance of deeply analyzing your data and understanding what people need access to and structuring your libraries and permissions accordingly. We used PowerBI to analyze our file server content and it was an invaluable tool in our planning.
Happy to chat with anyone struggling with similar issues and share what we did to resolve them. Happy SharePointing!
P.S., shoutout to the OneDrive Product Team, you guys are doing great, love what you've done with the OneDrive client, but for IT Pros struggling with competing product limits and business requirements, documenting behind the scenes technical data and sharing more of the roadmap would be incredibly valuable in helping our companies adopt or plan to adopt OneDrive and SharePoint.
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John Twohig I will look out for tmp files thank you.
I am also in the process of synchronizing a Synology NAS with the customer's OneDrive \"File Server\" library using the cloud sync app installed on the NAS itself. The plan is to utilize local file shares for the users instead of syncing via the OneDrive desktop app. Then just let the NAS handle the rest. For offsite use they can use the browser. I will disable sync button on the customer's tenant/OneDrive/SharePoint admin center.
","body@stringLength":"693","rawBody":"
I will look out for tmp files thank you.
I am also in the process of synchronizing a Synology NAS with the customer's OneDrive \"File Server\" library using the cloud sync app installed on the NAS itself. The plan is to utilize local file shares for the users instead of syncing via the OneDrive desktop app. Then just let the NAS handle the rest. For offsite use they can use the browser. I will disable sync button on the customer's tenant/OneDrive/SharePoint admin center.
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Both senior and standard users have the shared folder sync issue. I see sharepoint online (which OneDrive is based on IIRC) recommends 300k objects max for best performance, so it's probably a case that we've exceeded that limit and things are going awry.","body@stringLength":"435","rawBody":"Aside from one or two senior execs having access to all of the shared folders, most users only have been granted access to certain folders based on their role in the company. Both senior and standard users have the shared folder sync issue. I see sharepoint online (which OneDrive is based on IIRC) recommends 300k objects max for best performance, so it's probably a case that we've exceeded that limit and things are going awry.","author":{"__ref":"User:user:560349"},"isEscalated":null,"postTime":"2020-02-17T21:24:51.029-08:00"},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1178828":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","id":"message:1178828","revisionNum":1,"uid":1178828,"depth":11,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:OneDriveforBusiness"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:376200"},"subject":"Re: OneDrive Client, Files on Demand and Syncing large libraries","readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1178828"},"body":"
JonnaP Hi. Interested in your case. What is your largest document library in terms of number of files and what is your largest site in terms of number of files (answers may be the same if you only have one doc library in each site).
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Hi. Interested in your case. What is your largest document library in terms of number of files and what is your largest site in terms of number of files (answers may be the same if you only have one doc library in each site).
","author":{"__ref":"User:user:397271"},"isEscalated":null,"postTime":"2020-02-18T00:47:12.721-08:00","parent":{"__ref":"ForumReplyMessage:message:1178651"}},"ForumReplyMessage:message:1181153":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","id":"message:1181153","revisionNum":7,"uid":1181153,"depth":12,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:OneDriveforBusiness"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:376200"},"subject":"Re: OneDrive Client, Files on Demand and Syncing large libraries","readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:1181153"},"body":"
eddablinHi there. If I understand the terminology correctly... so all folders/files only exist on a single OneDrive for Business Plan 2 account. That means there's only 1 library. This plan 2 account has 9 parent folders. Unfortunately OneDrive doesn't seem to detail or report the number of files (or I just can't find where in the UI), but it should be around 600 000 - 800 000 files in total.
Each user who has O365 Business Premium license (About 20 users total) has been given shared links to certain folders in the above library, but in most cases the shared link is actually a subfolder and not the entire parent folder, see below...
So in at least 2 parent folders in the library there exists subfolders that initially contained in excess of 100 000 files. Due to this causing issues with sharing links to users and us finding out about the 100 000 limitation, we split out alphabetized variants of the subfolders and shared those instead.
I'm now considering that despite us overcoming the shared permission issue by alphabetized split of the subfolders, because they exist in a parent folder that contains in excess of 100 000 objects then perhaps this could still cause the issue we are observing? (File on Demand sync at client end just hanging and changes taking forever to process)
I'm now considering moving the subfolders out of the parent folder and re-sharing to users so they can sync to their PC's and see what happens...
UPDATE: I signed into a user's OneDrive account, accessed his \"Shared With Me\" section, clicked sync on a folder shared from the OneDrive Plan 2 library/account that contains 20 000 items only - unfortunately it's not syncing to my PC. Hangs on processing changes, nothing comes through - occasionally says processing 501 or 502 changes then back to nothing again. There goes that theory 😞 So moving things out a parent folder to remove the 100 000 concern probably won't help.
My next plan is to move one of the folders to another OneDrive account and try sharing/syncing that to the user's account.
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Hi there. If I understand the terminology correctly... so all folders/files only exist on a single OneDrive for Business Plan 2 account. That means there's only 1 library. This plan 2 account has 9 parent folders. Unfortunately OneDrive doesn't seem to detail or report the number of files (or I just can't find where in the UI), but it should be around 600 000 - 800 000 files in total.
Each user who has O365 Business Premium license (About 20 users total) has been given shared links to certain folders in the above library, but in most cases the shared link is actually a subfolder and not the entire parent folder, see below...
So in at least 2 parent folders in the library there exists subfolders that initially contained in excess of 100 000 files. Due to this causing issues with sharing links to users and us finding out about the 100 000 limitation, we split out alphabetized variants of the subfolders and shared those instead.
I'm now considering that despite us overcoming the shared permission issue by alphabetized split of the subfolders, because they exist in a parent folder that contains in excess of 100 000 objects then perhaps this could still cause the issue we are observing? (File on Demand sync at client end just hanging and changes taking forever to process)
I'm now considering moving the subfolders out of the parent folder and re-sharing to users so they can sync to their PC's and see what happens...
UPDATE: I signed into a user's OneDrive account, accessed his \"Shared With Me\" section, clicked sync on a folder shared from the OneDrive Plan 2 library/account that contains 20 000 items only - unfortunately it's not syncing to my PC. Hangs on processing changes, nothing comes through - occasionally says processing 501 or 502 changes then back to nothing again. There goes that theory 😞 So moving things out a parent folder to remove the 100 000 concern probably won't help.
My next plan is to move one of the folders to another OneDrive account and try sharing/syncing that to the user's account.
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One thing I have noticed when people's OneDrive always says it is is processing changes is that they sometimes have .tmp files on their computers that won't sync. If they have \"Hide protected operating system files\" checked they won't even see them.
I have had people uncheck that box and delete all the .tmp files they find. The \"processing changes\" that has gone on for days then stops.
That won't solve your problem but it could well be happening with some of your users.
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One thing I have noticed when people's OneDrive always says it is is processing changes is that they sometimes have .tmp files on their computers that won't sync. If they have \"Hide protected operating system files\" checked they won't even see them.
I have had people uncheck that box and delete all the .tmp files they find. The \"processing changes\" that has gone on for days then stops.
That won't solve your problem but it could well be happening with some of your users.
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