Support for M365 Apps (O365) on Windows 2022

rtravni42 · ‎Dec 02 2021

We have a large number of Windows Server 2016 with M365 Apps (O365) and need to upgrade these servers now (end of support for WS2016 is Jan 2022).
The next server product to install for us would be Windows Server 2022, unfortunately there is no support for M365 apps (O365).
In general, it looks like the support of M365 Apps for Server OS will be discontinued 2025.

RE2OqRI (microsoft.com)

We want to get a statement from Microsoft as to whether Microsoft intends to support M365 Apps (O365) on Windows Server 2022 at some point.
Now we have to make a strategic decision.
The time is not long until 2025!
The way is not to AVD or Microsoft Azure HCI, but the way is away from the concept of application (or desktop) "remoting" and thus we as customers are no longer available for AVD and Windows 365!

TWardrop · ‎Jan 19 2023

I would say one thing is abundantly clear. Microsoft are not making decisions on what is logical or best for their customer, they're dictating licensing conditions and software support, and artificially crippling operating system (server and desktop), to forcefully steer customers to a more expensive (profitable) platform that in most cases, cost aside, isn't even the best solution for the customer.

This isn't necessarily unsual for a company, though normally if you just make a great product the profitability comes easy, especially with software. What's maybe different here is Microsoft are not really try to hide the fact, and with the restriction on Win 10/11 multi-session licensing being exclusive to Azure, it's also very anti-competitive. It's a court case waiting to happen in my opinion.

Anyway, the whole situation just seems totally unecessary as it's clearly not a technical limitation. Must be frustrating for the developers and almost everybody else at Microsoft who just want to make the best products they can.

Karl_Wester-Ebbinghaus_business · ‎Jan 19 2023

Hi @RH I understand your points. Yet there is no direct binding of hardware support and the 5Y software support cycle. In fact, I am seeing regular updates to older HW products to be certified for newer Windows Server releases by the OEM, so it is quite likely you can use your hardware ideally for at least 2 iterations of Windows Server with full support by Microsoft. Yet, the HW support is often limited to 5 years by our OEM partners and buying in longer terms after the initial 5 years is quite costly. Same as the possible extension by ESU for up to 3 years per Windows Server Product oder other Server Products such as SQL - ESU cost exceptions Azure (Cloud) + Azure Stack HCI (on-premises).

So if you keep this in mind a 5-year cycle, it could make sense. Agree 5-year cycles can be a burden for large enterprises if you do not favor software designed changes in concepts as infrastructure as a code. And it also causes a lot of old hardware that might not be resold for a second life.

Karl_Wester-Ebbinghaus_business · ‎Jan 19 2023

@Jim Gaynor is there any ETA to GA for this? As you said it is in preview for quite a while and customers are hesitant to plan this option as RDSH / Citrix alternative when they have no visibility about prices and terms. They are unlikely eager to put any workloads in testing or even production stage, even in preview until terms are clear. This mindset differs from customer to customer or region to region. But from what I see AVD in Azure is the only option that is being discussed by deciders as alternative, which is quite sad.

Karl_Wester-Ebbinghaus_business · ‎Jan 20 2023

@RH "It is unclear to me why multi-user client is significantly different from terminal server, other than licensing. [...]no Intune, CSP (Policies) support.

That's quite easy to answer. It is not only Windows Server that is in question but also all Windows Client LTSC versions. Mind Windows Server is also an LTSC version, while less dominantly named in the product.

This causes constraints, technically, to support products and techniques coming from Azure PGs.

Actively seeing this on the matter how much of work it is to bring winget to Windows Server, while possible, but not yet supported. It is on the roadmap for winget but it is clear that LTSC as a definition and missing dependencies makes it harder to implement.

I personally do not like the clear split of management of WS and Clients aswell. Especially for SMB there are no "server" and seperate "client" teams, opposed to enterprises.

RH · ‎Jan 20 2023

@Karl_Wester-Ebbinghaus_business That view seems to see it almost exclusively from the provider (software and hardware) side. From the customer side, the binding isn't technical, it's practical: e.g., small businesses running a single cluster for the majority of their workload simply can't upgrade that production system in place. It's far too risky.

RH · ‎Jan 20 2023

@Karl_Wester-Ebbinghaus_business That misses the point: Microsoft could simply choose to provide CSP support in anything they want: they make all the Windows versions, including the LTSC versions. I don't think it's that simple anyway, as I'm pretty sure the non-LTSC versions of Server they've released don't have CSP support either.

sschmid · ‎Jan 20 2023

@Elden Christensen, thanks for your summary of current options. We are facing a decision for our hosting service (CSP, SPLA) this year on which technical basis our software and M365 can be provided to customers in the future. Currently, we are running Windows Server (RDS) in conjunction with M365 because this combination offers the best cost-benefit relation for our high standardized workloads.

We would welcome a decision for a general M365 support in the mainstream support phase of the Windows Server (know-how, HyperV support, …). For security and support reasons we can also understand and accept a limitation to 5 years.

From a customer perspective, Windows 11 EMS & M365 offers the best experience and would be the favored solution. Since we support many, very small customers, the required operation of an Azure Stack HCI cluster per customer is not economically feasible and operable. Here, a release of Azure Stack HCI multi-tenant setup and licensing would be necessary or a Windows 11 EMS release with general HyperV support. Also, the support period of 2.5 years on Win11 EMS is challenging.

The last option of migrating the service to the cloud is currently not technically feasible as there is no centralized management of 20,000+ Azure tenants and all required services.

Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have any questions.

Thaduktor · ‎Jan 20 2023

@Elden Christensen @TJ_Devine - this is a good summary of the topic (M365 Client OS vs. Server OS) from the customer's point of view. Could you please make a statement on this? Thanks

Jim Gaynor · ‎Jan 20 2023

@Karl_Wester-Ebbinghaus_business To be clear, I'm an independent analyst who covers RDS, AVD, and W365 (among other things) and not a Microsoft employee. So, no, I have no ETA on general availability of Azure Virtual Desktop on Stack HCI.

Karl_Wester-Ebbinghaus_business · ‎Jan 20 2023

Hi Jim, sorry for misreading your role and thanks for taking the time to bring up your information.

Karl_Wester-Ebbinghaus_business · ‎Jan 23 2023

Hi @RH

"I'm pretty sure the non-LTSC versions of Server they've released don't have CSP support either."

I agree with you, if this were the case also Azure Stack HCI, especially it is a cloud touched product, would support it but does not afaik. Hence Azure Stack HCI OS and Windows Server Datacenter Azure Edition do support Automanage, so their scope to manage Server OS and Client are still diverged, not only in terms of policies, but also in Terms of Security + Update Management. This is a model I am not agreeing with as it causes complexity for common to SMB and SMC for generic tasks. The target are corporations that have and can afford dedicated teams, and then it is fine also in terms of RBAC. I believe though, that this conception and weaknesses have been brought to attention already and I personally do not believe in a change here, solely as this would imply to redesign the whole Azure platform services, including on-premises via Arc. That's too much to ask.
If we wonder why non LTSC version and named Azure centric OS do not offer CSP, well they have no GUI. Allow me to name a detail, even though it is a command-line, you cannot join WS Core to Azure AD via dsregcmd.exe, while it is present (for unclear reason) in the GUI installation option. This could give you an impression about their heading in this regard. I do not want to speak for them or their design decisions though, just my 2 cents.

RH · ‎Jan 24 2023

Hello @Karl_Wester-Ebbinghaus_business :)

I think I follow what you're describing/speculating. It sounds like the forked management model plan is Client for customers, and Server primarily for... Microsoft itself (for Azure). Customers now also have access to those same Azure management tools (including on-premises via Azure Stack HCI and Arc), but while these controls may make sense for Microsoft's use, they don't really map that nicely to how customers manage their servers. They are a subset of GPO/SCCM/CSP controls, and unless this is some hidden thing I've not yet stumbled across, some things simply can't be done because of that gap, such as applying Conditional Access controls based on Compliance status.

RH · ‎Mar 15 2023

Just to close the loop: looks like official support came out with v2302 (released 2/28/2023): https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/endofsupport/windows-server-support#windows-server-20...

Michael Russo · ‎Mar 15 2023

Yes, we see that too. The way that page is written however, it almost makes it seem like another LTSC version of Windows (or Office!) will be released only grudgingly, with Microsoft always hinting that this may be the last time. This thread in general has moved from discussing that specific support item to trying to encourage Microsoft NOT to move to the "move fast and break things" philosophy... or the "make your customers pay more by dragging them to the cloud for everything"... we kind of need someone in IT to stay away from those ideas. Maybe it simply needs to go out of fashion?

Leopold Giterson · ‎May 24 2023

@Elden Christensen

Thanks for the initial extension.

However I have a summary of the support on of the microsoft apps on previous server versions.

Windows server 2008R2

Support Dates