Dec 02 2021 06:46 AM - edited Dec 02 2021 07:12 AM
Dec 02 2021 06:46 AM - edited Dec 02 2021 07:12 AM
We have a large number of Windows Server 2016 with M365 Apps (O365) and need to upgrade these servers now (end of support for WS2016 is Jan 2022).
The next server product to install for us would be Windows Server 2022, unfortunately there is no support for M365 apps (O365).
In general, it looks like the support of M365 Apps for Server OS will be discontinued 2025.
We want to get a statement from Microsoft as to whether Microsoft intends to support M365 Apps (O365) on Windows Server 2022 at some point.
Now we have to make a strategic decision.
The time is not long until 2025!
The way is not to AVD or Microsoft Azure HCI, but the way is away from the concept of application (or desktop) "remoting" and thus we as customers are no longer available for AVD and Windows 365!
Sep 06 2022 12:29 PM
Sep 06 2022 01:32 PM
Sep 06 2022 01:36 PM
Sep 07 2022 04:54 AM
Sep 07 2022 05:53 AM
Sep 07 2022 06:20 AM
Sep 07 2022 09:50 AM
@F_Neumann just for awareness there is another on-prem option, Azure Virtual Desktop is coming to Azure Stack HCI. This will allow running Windows 10 and Windows 11 Enterprise multi-session virtual desktops on-prem. It's currently in preview:
Sep 07 2022 12:46 PM - edited Sep 08 2022 12:28 AM
As far is i know there is no Multi Tenant for Azure Stack HCI. So no Option for Service Providers to transfer there Business to Windows 11 Enterprise multi user if there are needs to stay in their Datacenter.
So is there Support for Office 365 on Windows Server after 2025 or a Multitenant Option for Azure Stack HCI to put multiple Customers on a Azure Stack HCI Cluster.
Sep 08 2022 12:04 AM - edited Sep 08 2022 01:26 AM
Dear @Elden Christensen please keep in mind, within your internal discussions, that in case Microsoft would decide to support M365 Apps on Windows Server 2022, this would be a welcome change for some scenarios.
On the other hand, and quite importantly, Microsoft should consider this decision would be the second time that the support of M365 Apps revoked from Windows Server would be reinstated later. As it happened with Windows Server 2019.
Back then the decision was a good one for several reasons:
- WS 2016 has bugged servicing stack taking ages to patch
- WS 2019 has several improvements to start and search / indexing making it easier to implement RDS or Citrix based multi-session use. Next to said servicing improvements and other things.
- the alternatives to cope with the revoke weren't up to par and not that versatile as they appear now in terms of technical excellence and licensing.
If Microsoft would change this decision and support M365 apps on Windows Server 2022, this would absolutely destroy the credibility to plan budgets and lifecycles based on roadmaps published by the Office team.
This time there is little reason, as many functional and cost effective alternatives to RDS exist.
In terms of licensing, starting from October 1st which Microsoft supposed to loosen the VDI licensing requirements and make it easy to either host VDI on-premises on any hypervisor or in Azure using Windows 10/11 Pro / Ent while user are licensed with M365 E3/E5/Fx etc.
Alternatively, hosting Azure Virtual Desktop on Azure Stack HCI on-premises will be a great option.
Even external hosting M365 apps within SPLA and on shared hardware could become an option starting from October 1st without QMTH provider requirements.
So before taking any u-turn, please consider these announced licensing changes, and rate their effectiveness, in addition to feedback from customers and / or partners to revert to "status quo".
Thanks for your time and consideration!
Sep 08 2022 03:06 AM
Yeah, but again you forgot Support for Multitanant Scenarios.
Sorry to say this, but all your team is delivering are peaces, not a working model for broad markets.
1) Get Multitanancy to ASHCI Sceranios
2) Get Support for M365 on Server 2022 BUT also be clear what the restrictions are
3) Get clear about the end of support for M365 in remote scenarios in 2025 and stay with your decision before everyone will put ton of investments into it and you rethink it in 2024...
SO make your homework, for all partners, not just for the enterprice customers....
Sep 08 2022 05:13 AM
@kwester-ebbinghaus-businesswhy are you so against Microsoft supporting M365 apps on Windows Server? There aren't as many good alternatives to RDS as you claim, especially for those of us using on-prem hosting that is not Azure Stack HCI. We shouldn't be forced to run MS virtualization either in their cloud or on-prem to run M365 apps.
I'm not saying MS shouldn't change their M365 apps system requirements to start to require newer versions of Windows Server sooner rather than later when they go out of support, I think that's a reasonable ask, as they already did with 2012R2 which still receives security updates but can't support latest M365 apps. BUT we want RDS on WS to continue to be supported for running them, it is stable, it is performant and less resource-intensive than many different W10 desktops.
Sep 08 2022 06:08 AM - edited Sep 08 2022 06:14 AM
Well as always it depends. We have things like memory compression and dynamic memory and thin provisioning + Dedup on storage level. At least all of this is included in the licensing cost for Azure Stack HCI or even traditional Hyper-V. So VDI could be quite effective, and more performant compared to RDS, but at least also more secure and flexible.
For me it is no pain that M365 and 2012R2 are not supported, as simply WS 2012R2 is not supported for mainstream, as well as WS 2016 is no longer supported.
I am well aware of the awkward situation when you are trying to open a support ticket with Microsoft and the qualified OS is in extended support.
It is nothing for everyday business. Let alone you have a potential cross product issue, like you might think it is your Windows Server causing FSLogix issue, or OneDrive or M365 apps.
My point is Microsoft should stop supporting M365 from any Windows Server as it is by now.
It is a Server OS, not a user OS, albeit they are quite similar. WS vNext (maybe released around 2023-2024) seems to the Windows 11 GUI, which is welcome in some parts and consistency but still suprising to me.
For RDS, if you really need it the same way, you could step back to the Office LTSC version and licensing.
One reason the Office Team keeps trying to avoid supporting M365 on any LTSC serviced Windows OS, including Windows Server, is the non-matching support matrix of both products. No matter if you are using M365 on deferred or current channels.
Please look forward for the licensing changes coming October 1st, which should offer alternatives for these not seeing the need to switch to AVD on AzureStackHCI on-premises but need to host VDI on-premises.
Sep 08 2022 06:23 AM
Sep 08 2022 06:25 AM
Sep 08 2022 06:43 AM - edited Sep 08 2022 06:46 AM
I feel you, and agree it is quite uncertain what happens with Office LTSC, especially since Office 2022 LTSC release is quiet.
Just want to make clear that AzureStackHCI + AVD would be one option. Not intended to say it is the option.
"no one is on physical anymore"
In my posts and replies I always assume we are talking about virtualized workloads, too.
Repeating myself wait for October and check licensing terms before further decisions and conclusions on the matter. We need to have it written (and stable) in the product terms what is going to happen.
Sep 08 2022 11:11 AM
we have been using Server 2022 with Office 365 since the beginning of 2022. We have made Server 2022 a thermal server and installed Office there. This can be used as a remote app or as a full terminal server. At one customer we also have a Server 2022 with Office 365 Apps for Enterprise for testing. This customer has been using this for about 2 months with no problems.