The next Windows 10 Long Term Servicing Channel (LTSC) release

[Joe Lurie]

Windows 10 introduced Windows as a service, a method of continually providing new features and capabilities through regular feature updates. Semi-Annual Channel versions of Windows, such as version 1909, version 2004, and version 20H2, are released twice per year.

In addition to Semi-Annual Channel releases of Windows 10 Enterprise, we also developed a Long Term Servicing Channel for Windows, known as Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC, and an Internet of Things (IoT) version known as Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC. Each of these products was designed to have a 10-year support lifecycle, as outlined in our lifecycle documentation.

What are we announcing today?

Today we are announcing that the next version of Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC and Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC will be released in the second half (H2) of calendar year 2021. Windows 10 Client LTSC will change to a 5-year lifecycle, aligning with the changes to the next perpetual version of Office. This change addresses the needs of the same regulated and restricted scenarios and devices. Note that Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC is maintaining the 10-year support lifecycle; this change is only being announced for Office LTSC and Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC. You can read more about the Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC announcement on the Windows IoT blog.

Frequently asked questions (FAQ)

Why are you making this change to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC?

Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC is meant for specialty devices and scenarios that simply cannot accept changes or connect to the cloud, but still require a desktop experience: regulated devices that cannot accept feature updates for years at a time, process control devices on the manufacturing floor that never touch the internet, and specialty systems that must stay locked in time and require a long-term support channel.

Through in-depth conversations with customers, we have found that many who previously installed an LTSC version for information worker desktops have found that they do not require the full 10-year lifecycle. With the fast and increasing pace of technological change, it is a challenge to get the up-to-date experience customers expect when using a decade-old product. Where scenarios do require 10 years of support, we have found in our conversations that these needs are often better solved with Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC.

This change also aligns the Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC lifecycle with the recently announced Office LTSC lifecycle for a more consistent customer experience and better planning.

You state that you are making this change to Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC to align with the changes to Office LTSC. Has your guidance changed on installing Office on Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC?

Our guidance has not changed: Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC is designed for specialty devices, and not information workers. However, if you find that you have a need for Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC, and you also need Office on that device, the right solution is Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC + Office LTSC. For consistency for those customers, we are aligning the lifecycle of the two products.

What about the current versions of LTSC – Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2015/2016/2019?

We are not changing the lifecycle of the LTSC versions that have been previously released. This change only impacts the next version of Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC, scheduled to be released in the second half of the 2021 calendar year.

What should I do if I need to install or upgrade to the next version, but I need the 10-year lifecycle for my device?

We recommend that you reassess your decision to use Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC and change to Semi-Annual Channel releases of Windows where it is more appropriate. For your fixed function devices, such as kiosk and point-of-sale devices, that need to continue using LTSC and are planning to install or upgrade to the next version, consider moving to Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC. Again, we understand the needs for IoT/fixed purpose scenarios are different and there is no change to the 10-year support lifecycle for Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC. For information on how to obtain Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC, please reach out to your local IoT distributor.

Is there a difference in the Windows 10 operating system between Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC and Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC?

The two operating systems are binary equivalents but are licensed differently. For information on licensing Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC, please reach out to your local IoT distributor.

Where can I find more information about Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC?

You can learn about the different Windows for IoT editions, and for which scenarios each edition is optimized in the Windows for IoT documentation. You’ll also find tutorials, quick start guides, and other helpful information. Check it out today!

When will Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC announce their release?

Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC will be released in the second half of 2021. You can read more about the Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC announcement on the Windows IoT blog.

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[Greg_E999]

Joe,

I mentioned the download because way up in the above article, it mentions that LTSC will only be available from selected partners, reading that it will be available from our normal download options is frankly great news!

The Win11 stuff with MDT is just something "new" to me (not really new to most admins). I haven't studied up on MDT even though I should have been using it for years. One of those conditions that happens when you "wear too many hats" and never have time to stay up to date on things. Thankfully I finally have an XCP-NG system set up for a lab to test with and I'll get started on this as time allows. Either that or I'll scrap WDS/MDT for something like a FOG server.

[Joe Lurie]

@Greg_E999 Only IoT LTSC requires certain partners to obtain. But for windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021, you'll be able to download it from VLSC.

[Tammy104]

Greg,

The change that was announced is that the new release of LTSC we get through EA will now have a 5 year life not 10. 

for people like me who use specialized devices in an enterprise environment that means we are forced to work with one of 5 IOT providers to figure out how to get the 10 year iot version. Microsoft is disconnected from the smaller niche use cases because we don’t make up enough of their business to care about impact.

[AdamC-]

So why have a channel called the "Long Term Servicing Channel" if you won't be "servicing" it "long term".

I can't think that it would cost all that much to keep LTSC updated considering there's no feature improvements and you're supporting a bunch of similar branches anyway.

I can only assume this is a jab at people using LTSC "incorrectly" but also defeats the whole point of the existence of the Channel.

I think if there's anyone at Microsoft listening, please consider revising this decision. This doesn't help anyone but is worse for the people using LTSC correctly than the few not.

Thank you.

[Greg_E999]

AdamC,

I'll not try and defend MS, but the only reason I can think of for the shorter term of this LTSC release is that Windows 11 is here and they don't want to deal with a long term OS past the new 5 year period. Just my guess. They have committed to an LTSC for win11 and maybe that will have longer terms again (but probably not).

As far as using it incorrectly... This should be an option for anyone that has a license to Pro (or similar level). There are a bunch of business/professional use cases that don't require or desire a lot of the stuff put into Pro. The entire motion picture industry is one very clear example, a large number of those machines are truly walled off from the rest of the world to try and prevent movies leaking out into "the wild". Decades ago "The Hulk" leaked on the web without the special effects, this being one concrete example I can cite. Obviously having a person inside to sneaker net the contraband out is something that no OS can prevent, but with the number of "electronic break-ins" on the rise, having a true air gap is required. Netflix might specify this in their workflow document, if you are getting funding from Netflix, you need to conform to their workflow, from cameras to file handling practices. I think a web search will find those documents for anyone wanting to look, they definitely have a list of approved cameras.

These movie companies also don't need all the wiz bang consumer oriented stuff, they come in, get to work, and if they are lucky go home at the end of the day.

The Long Term channel should be available to "normal" users, might cut down on all the debloat script stuff floating around the web that you never know if you can really trust! If you can't code the script yourself, you have no way of knowing if it contains a "surprise".

[Jason Leznek]

Thank you all for your comments.   I can assure you that the change in policy is not meant as a "jab" to anyone but rather to align with our overall lifecycle policies with Office -  we do see instances where customers use LTSC for everyday, "knowledge worker" scenarios and for that, we have alignment of five years with the Office LTSC release.   For use cases which require longer servicing without any new feature updates/changes to the device itself, we do suggest you look at the IoT LTSC edition as that is supported for 10 years directly by the OEM, which would have the hardware driver support necessary to support a static environment required.

Jason Leznek

Principal Program Manager - Windows Lifecycle

Microsoft Corporation

[TammyM]

Jason Leznek,

Microsoft assumes that we obtain computers with all of our equipment. In my environment we have thousands of these types of scientific devices ranging from simple plate readers to complex mass spectrometers. In an enterprise why would we want to have thousands of unique images to manage on our company network? We have strived over the last 20 years to do the opposite and allow vendors to work with us so we can use corporate provided systems so we can better secure and patch them. 
Microsoft made this decision without input from its customers. 

[ajc196]

@Jason Leznek  I hate to beat a dead horse at this point, especially after the product team reached out to me in recent months based on previous feedback in these comments... but I still agree @TammyM's sentiment. If you're a massive enterprise that is developing your solutions in-house or in close relationship to a vendor, this may be an acceptable answer as they're likely to be providing hardware, or you'll have a deployment scale large enough to warrant making your own partnership with an OEM like Dell where IoT Enterprise LTSC would be obtainable.

However, if you're only semi-large (say a university of 30,000 students + 4,000 employees), you deal with a ton of hardware and deployment scenarios where vendors for all sorts of embedded/specialized devices (signage, spectrometers, kiosks, other scientific/medical devices) are *NOT* providing the computers or the OS to run them. We supply them. These machines also A) cycle out with lifespans exceeding 5 years, and B) have historically been broken when deploying feature updates if we entertained running them on Win10 Semi-Annual Channel, and subsequently poorly supported by vendors.

We're carrying on and making the best of the shortened lifecycle going forward, but I really just want to drive the point home that "use IoT Enterprise LTSC" seems a rather flippant response for organizations like us, because it's simply not as easily obtainable as it's being made out to be.  Similar orgs may not have the resources, size, or scale to justify pursuing OEMs in such a fashion. We feel like we're a forgotten side-effect of this matching of lifespans between Windows Enterprise LTSC and Office LTSC, for a crowd that was never using Enterprise LTSC correctly in the first place.

[Jason Leznek]

I appreciate the feedback - truly - and we are always listening to our customers of all sizes to better understand your processes and needs.   I will keep this your comments and keep them in consideration as iterate on our LTSC and IoT roadmap.   Thank you!

[AngryJohnny75]

Coming from an enterprise admin that specializes in Windows deployments: the 5 year support of LTSC 2021 makes no sense to us. We aren't concerned about the alignment of its support schedule with Office LTSC. We don't even use Office on most of our LTSC deployments. LTSC 2021 will go end of support sooner than LTSC 2019 will. So it makes sense for us to continue deploying LTSC 2019 for as long as we can. This includes on VMs which we will have no way to deploy LTSC IoT on due to the licensing of LTSC IoT. Also the complexity of the licensing of LTSC IoT makes it virtually unobtainable. Microsoft's decision of making LTSC 2021 only have 5 year of support just goes to show how Microsoft is out of touch with its enterprise customers.

[Greg_E999]

There are a lot of different industries represented here, kind of neat.

Here's an idea for Win11 (too late for Win10). You have roles and features for server, so this is a known method of expanding an OS... How about use this method to produce Windows 11. Start with LTSC as the base of Pro/Enterprise/Education, then allow simple clicks to add the other features to "scale up" to Pro. You would of course need to pay for a Pro/Enterprise/Education license, but it would give more flexibility to both parties. Sure would save a lot of time making GPO's to remove games, and do plenty of other things to try and tame all the consumer oriented things that we just don't want in most of a business environment. I would consider this for consumer oriented computers as well, not everyone plays games on a "gaming" machine.

And yes I'm that jerk that removes/blocks solitaire, I'm guessing I'm not the only one in this crowd.

I will tell you that the worst thing that can happen is you forget to postpone feature updates for a classroom full of computers, and then they update over night. You come in the next day and the key piece of software that they are trying to use in class now no longer functions. That's what pushed me to LTSC in the first place.

You can keep Home the way it is, kind of the "canary in the coal mine", oddly it seems to run just fine on my laptop at home. I must be the only one that finds it acceptable. No de-bloat scripts either, but that will probably change. Going to be stuck on this because I don't think 11 is allowed to run on my hardware. But that's another topic.

[Spoot]

I guess I'll be the one to bring up a forgotten part of the 'information workers' that are getting over-looked by the SAC\LTSC argument. 

I'm not sure why this isn't just more of a 'Enterprise vs Retail-fluffy-crap' in the first place, but I digress.

I guess this is also 'slightly' off topic as stated by @Joe Lurie as just the change from 10-yr to 5-yr support for the LTSC.

Police Officers \ EMT \ Small Gov Emergency Responders

Who wants to be the first to call 911 and have the dispatcher say...."Tell the guy with the gun to hold on for a few minutes, while I get my new Feature Update with the latest version of Candy Crush !"

or

"Sorry, unconscious person with blunt-force trama, I was trying to access your medical records but I'm waiting for the Feature Release to get that important Xbox & virtual reality function to be installed"

Now, some might say, this is an admin issue to control\lockdown\manage the SAC. You might suggest that I use 5 or 10 or 20 different "free" things for me to properly manage SAC. You might suggest 100 different GPO's to help me... I respectfully say, I simply do not have the time for this.

I (and 1,000's of other small municipalities), simply do not have the resources to deal with a retail SAC version of Windows.

We need a "Pro" version of an O/S. No fluff. No 3D Paint. No Store. No virtual assistants. No Cortana. No Xbox. No Candy Crush. No TV & Movies. Simple & easy to manage.

I'm sorry if this offends all of the Millennials that work at MS and have created all of these incredible apps for the home user and a small number of businesses that benefit from them...Pro or Ent version should simply have an opt-in for this stuff. Win98SE is a good example of this (yes, this shows my age).

I use SmartDeploy right now as the best way to easily manage my images.

I do have SCCM, but I use it in very limited ways. I do have some GPOs to do some simple things.

Respectfully, 

'You're not the intended user of LTSC' :(

[Greg_E999]

Police, fire, emt, and other emergency services aren't on LTSC? That's a scary eye opener!!! Might even be better to be on an IOT release that is "ultra stable" like the old embedded releases.

I'm going to have to ask our campus police what OS they have on their computers, they are kind of separate from the rest of campus. If they aren't on LTSC I'll have to explain why it might be a better choice than Pro or Enterprise. I know they aren't really part of our domain controllers, so not really part of the GPO that delays the feature updates.

[Spoot]

@Greg_E999 I almost got burned with LTSC 2019 only running on "current" hardware, meaning (iirc) Kabylake processors...and not newer. So, next year, I have to find systems with 10th-gen Intel (?) or older hardware - or, most likely, start deploying Win11 LTSC.

I will start to look at IoT as well, more time I don't have.

edit: I guess W10LTSC H2. But I do need to create & deploy this next version. I can't just upgrade an existing 2019LTSC.

LTSC is a wipe\replace.

[Greg_E999]

Yeah, no in place upgrade on these. And I checked today and the latest LTSC is still not out. I need to get things ready for my little network and it would be nice to get to work sooner than later.

[Joe Lurie]

@Greg_E999 You can IPU WIndows 10 LTSC from an ealier version to a newer version. Version 2021 will be released in a few weeks when the next SAC version is released. And @Spoot, for planning purposes, do not expect a Windows 11 LTSC version until the next one in about 3 years.

[Spoot]

@Joe Lurie I've never heard nor seen information on IPU of an existing LTSC to a newer version....?

I, too, will watch for LTSC 2021. I mis-spoke earlier about Win11LTSC. 

Will it be "W10LTSC 2019 H2" or W10LTSC 2021" that gets released in a couple weeks?

[Allen_Schreiber]

Microsoft says that it listens to its customers.  Okay.  What Enterprise users asked for two updates per year?  And Candy Crush?  And a store where the end users can download more unapproved apps?  And a major changes to the UI (in Windows 11 Enterprise)?

Seriously, what is called Enterprise LTSC should be Enterprise.  LTSC should be really special, maybe to the point that IoT is special just through an Enterprise channel rather than being available with OEM hardware.  But today, LTSC is the only way to get around a bunch of the garbage that Microsoft dumps into Enterprise.

If you really want to listen to customers, fix the networking that still has references to Microsoft LAN Manager and Windows for Workgroups.

[Greg_E999]

Now that's direct requests, no "beating around the bush" here. Can't say that I don't feel the same way, and it should be allowed to set up personal computers to this "less featured" enterprise version. Anyone that has a Pro license should be allowed to "remove" features that they don't want or need, and do it easily. I don't want candy crush at home either, nor do I want a lot of things that people commonly refer to as "junk" or "bloat".

But that junk and bloat are paying the bills, so not likely to be removed.

[Spoot]

@Greg_E999 I'm OK, as well, with bloat on 'Home'. Maybe even 'Pro', as that now serves certain customers. 'ENT', though...we pay a lot more - and not just so I can get bitlocker or something in-addition-to. This (my subscription to an EA) should cover any loss of revenue from not including Candy Crush.

'Enterprise' should easily LACK all the fluff\bloat unless I opt-in.

It shouldn't be an 'Everything-including-the-kitchen-sink' O/S.

But, I think this ship sailed years ago.

/rant

[Greg_E999]

Yes that ship is well over the horizon now. I'll go back to Roles and Features in server, set up ENT and EDU so you can add that stuff back in if you want. Or at least make it easier to remove with GPO, not just suppress but remove. A one stop GPO to remove the "junk" would be OK and strip it down to LTSC features, maybe tick boxes to remove stuff but still in an easy to find GPO. Yes I do kill games through GPO, that goes back to XP Pro days and it will stay in case I ever need to go back to a Pro/ENT version.

I don't handle the contract details, so not sure what we are paying each year, but I bet it isn't pocket change. I think we are E5 and I'm not sure if they charge us per student or if students are free. And how they determine each computer considering that the majority are student use. It says per user, and I know we pay for employees so around $680 per year just for me. That's a lot more than someone buying a laptop with Pro to use at home, and most of our hardware comes with a Pro sticker on the side even though we are only required to have Home to be able to upgrade to ENT/EDU versions. Paying on the front end and back end.

[Adam_Tyler]

Looks like we have an interesting discussion here, I'll add my thoughts and make it brief.  I work in the IT Department for the largest non-profit air ems agency in the US.  We have just under 1000 employees and about 450 Windows 10 computers.  Every single one of those Windows 10 computers runs either 1609 LTSB (end of support Oct 2026) or 1809 LTSC (end of support Sept 2029).  As a result our environment is incredibly stable.  We approve security fixes only using WSUS and have completely side stepped the feature update twice a year.  Let's be honest, these are really in place OS upgrades.  When the next build of LTSC becomes available, we will build that image and make it our standard for new deployments.  Not sure why this next release is taking so long, I thought it was supposed to be available in Q4 ?

I've read over and over again that LTSC is only to be used for niche implementations when it is only absolutely necessary.  At first I was concerned, I mean what if there is an app in the Windows store that is critical to our business?  Never happened.  Furthermore I have been able to watch from the sidelines as a constantly changing mainstream Windows 10 build introduces vulnerability after vulnerability.  Suggesting that everyone should perform regular OS upgrades is ludicrous in my opinion and this rebrand to the name IoT with half the support term is concerning.  The prospect of one day being forced to conform to a Microsoft on high mandate seems like a direct slap in the face.  Microsoft has proven they are incapable of producing secure products on the release cycle they've adopted and it should stop now.

I started with Windows very young and have maintained MCSE/MCSA through 2003, 2008, 2012, and 216.  Today I have only disdain for Microsoft products.  The second there is a viable alternative to AD and GPOs for management, I will be recommending a move to that platform.  They can only get away with this behavior because they've been the only game in town.  Linux with domainless enterprise technology from jumpcloud is looking pretty good right about now.  Never thought I would see the day when I would hope Microsoft would fail.

Regards,

Adam Tyler

[Greg_E999]

Adam,

I have "played" with Zentyal for AD, but not really devoted the kind of time needed to learn it. They have a relatively decent book put together for certification training, you can buy PDF or printed version for v7. The one thing they can't do is integrate GPO into the server role like all of the MS server products can do. What they suggest is installing full RSAT tools on a client device and managing GPO through RSAT... Again not tested by me.

For WSUS you are likely still going to need an MS server, not sure if you can accomplish this through Chocolately or FOG.

[Vadim Sterkin]

Hi @Joe Lurie 

Please clarify the mainstream and extended support dates for the client LTSC. Microsoft provides conflicting information as of today.

In this blog post you state

Windows 10 Client LTSC will change to a 5-year lifecycle

Are you talking about the mainstream support, extended support, or the total? The word change makes sense only in the context of the total, because LTSC 1809 has 5 years of mainstream and 5 years of extended support.

This page What's new in Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 - What's new in Windows | Microsoft Docs  says the same thing without clarifying the support type.

But this page http://aka.ms/win10releaseinfo lists 5 years of mainstream and 5 years of extended support for LTSC 21H2 (2021), the total of 10 years. This is what's posted as of today

What have you changed then?

Digging into this a bit deeper, we can compare the lifecycle pages

Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 - Microsoft Lifecycle | Microsoft Docs 

vs

Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2019 - Microsoft Lifecycle | Microsoft Docs

The difference is that LTSC 2021 does not have the extended support. If that's the case, why wouldn't you have said that straight?

But then http://aka.ms/win10releaseinfo is wrong.

Thanks.

[Joe Lurie]

@Vadim Sterkin Thank you for reaching out for clarification. The entire lifecycle for LTSC 2021 is 5 years. Previously we marked LTSC as 5+5 (mainstream+extended) but in the LTSC world, there's no difference between mainstream and extended since LTSC does not receive new features - not even in the first 5 years. So we dropped the extended and changed LTSC from 2021 and forward to a full 5 year lifecycle. Any previous LTSB or LTSC version retains their existing 10 years lifecycle support, and IoT LTSC 2021 retinas its 10 years lifecycle support. But Windows 10 Enterprise LTSC 2021 is changed to 5 years.

You are correct that the /win10releaseinto page is wrong or misleading. IoT LTSC will be supported for 10 years, whilst LTSC Enterprise is 5 years, I will have that page clarified.

Thanks, and sorry for the confusion.

[Tammy104]

Now that the 2021 releases are out, I am still waiting for an answer from Microsoft on how to move forward with the changes they made.

Today in a large enterprise my IT team provides computers to be used with equipment. We deploy our own computer with LTSC and work with the device vendors to support this because in a very large environment we need standardization to maintain a secure, manageable environment. 

Microsoft is making an assumption that any specialized device needing the 10 year LTSC is sold with that device and that is a problem. 

Its not appropriate for us to go to the 5 select Microsoft preferred IoT vendors to buy the licenses either. Microsoft assumes that the Vendor of the specialized device is going to do that and then sell it to us. This is not practical or realistic. 

Using a 5 year version is also not practical when dealing with this type of equipment. My world has a longer refresh cycle due to the vendors taking longer to update their software. Additionally, keeping up with the existing 10 year span is difficult enough with compliance requirements and dealing with regulatory agencies. 

Im sure we will be sticking with 2019 for quite some time given that its supported beyond the 2021 LTSC however we will have to get a better path forward from Microsoft at some point.

[Vadim Sterkin]

Hi @Joe Lurie!

I truly appreciate your quick response and clarification. Hopefully, http://aka.ms/win10releaseinfo will get updated soon.

Regarding the extended support, I totally understand what you mean by saying

but in the LTSC world, there's no difference between mainstream and extended since LTSC does not receive new features

However, these intricacies are beyond understanding for the vast majority of your audience. We look at the LTSC 2019 lifecycle page or even a freshly baked Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 - Microsoft Lifecycle | Microsoft Docs and see both the mainstream and extended support listed. We have no choice but take this at the face value and use this terminology.

Thanks!

[Jason Leznek]

@Tammy104, thank you for your comment.   We are exploring options to address the problem you are describing.  I don't have a timetable for if/when we have a solution, but we are looking into it.

[Tammy104]

@Jason Leznek  Do  you have any updates on this ? It seems as if Microsoft has recognized the problem with the decision however no commitment to follow up on it. 

Please help us understand how we address this issue. There is no clear path forward at this time. We cannot work with the 5 IoT Microsoft partners to get what we need. We work with hundreds of scientific vendors that sell equipment to us. If it is up to the vendors, they would provide a Win10 PRO with their instrument  and we would be left to deal with feature updates etc. The equipment vendors do not want us applying any updates when they sell a windows computer with an instrument device. They tell us to leave it as-is. Don't put it on a company network, domain, apply regular updates, etc. That is not realistic in todays world. Additionally, these vendors to not understand lifecycle management and keeping software up to date. When Windows 10 came out in 2015, they did not even start providing compatible software until 2017-2018. Our world is always behind the regular office desktop refresh cycle and it takes twice as long to refresh the fleet. Each single system requires validation activities to ensure compliance with regulatory authorities (ie FDA). Every individual patch install is tracked and records archived permanently. Bigger changes require more extensive testing and documentation.  Imagine this for hundreds of devices globally.

As an enterprise we have chosen to standardize on hardware, OS and security tools. To do this we have to provision the windows PC used to control that scientific device. We thought Windows 10 LTSB was great when MS announced this in 2015. A lifecycle more aligned to our world and less impactful changes between versions because "Windows 10 is the last OS" Well Microsoft has once again changed directions and this decision was made with assumptions that all scientific device vendors will work with your pre-chosen 5 IoT vendors. If this is what you expect us to deal with then I believe it is up to Microsoft to engage these companies to work through the issue.

Microsoft, please go work with these vendors to tell them to work with your preferred vendors so they can provide us what we need with scientific equipment. If you google "Top instrument vendors" you will have a good list to start with.

ThermoFisher Scientific

Waters

Agilent

Danaher Corp

Shimadzu

Bruker

Bio-Rad

Mettler Toledo

Illumina

Talk to these companies about what type of computer they sell with their instruments please. If you can get them to provide the 10 year 2021 LTSC ioT enterprise we wouldn't have the problem we have.

Alternately, change the stance and allow enterprise to deploy the 10 year IoT Enterprise 

Thanks

[Greg_E999]

Not that I have to work with the same level of equipment as Tammy104, but I strongly agree. We pay a lot of money each year, and we should be allowed to roll out these other "flavors" of OS when we see fit.

I still think that if you have a Pro key that you should be able to "downgrade" to LTSC or IOT. Yes it would be a "downgrade" because you are removing features. But I get it, you lose the telemetry that is so profitable in these current times. Most Enterprise users are already killing telemetry, even if they are still running Pro on their computers. If it wasn't getting removed with LTSC, I can almost guarantee that I'd be filtering on my firewall!

Back to Tammy's issue, if you drag your feet too long, you are going to push these manufacturers back to Mac OS or Linux. I get this new 5 year path on the 21h2, Windows 10 is only good for another 5 years. But where is 11 LTSC? Give these equipment manufacturers something to work with, it's obvious that building these "stripped down" versions is a known process. If you don't want to do this, how about a bunch of powershell scripts so that the end user can do this for themselves? We all know that there are many portions of this out on the web now, but they fall short and since they aren't official things keep getting changed to bring back the "bloat" that we want gone. Do a Bing search on debloat scripts, very popular subject. Make a white paper on how to do this in the official way, and stick to it.

And last words... We can see that Windows as a Service is going to be the future, so maybe these manufacturers need to get going into a different path right now (I know I'm thinking about how to do this). No way that test equipment can be run on an OS as a service. And do you really want "big pharma" making your vaccine on machines that are constantly getting feature updates that change core operations? Think about that for a moment, think really hard if you don't see the issue.

[TWWWW]

Also looking for any update from @Jason Leznek  or Microsoft on how to license dedicated and specialized devices with LTSC IOT.  

[Jason Leznek]

I appreciate everyone's feedback and will bring it back to our business planning and OEM partner teams for discussion.   I agree this is something we need to address but I can't resolve the problem in a community thread.   If you have immediate concerns please escalate through your account teams and we can work together to find a solution for you.

[Tammy104]

@Jason Leznek @I have attempted taking this through our Microsoft rep multiple times with no success or answers

[Jason Leznek]

@Tammy104 - please reach out to me privately and I'll try to help.

[Chris_Chiesa]

Man.  I logged in here, and signed a thing saying (basically) that I'd "be nice" in my posts, but truth to tell I came here to unleash 25 years' worth of ire and bile at Microsoft for what I have always held to be your evil and unethical business practices.   Unfortunately, as soon as I get more than a half-paragraph into it, the rage and fury take over and I am reduced to invective, ad-hominem attack, and various other questionable rhetorical forms.

I'll just leave it at this: I'm delighted to observe what seems a larger groundswell of grassroots resentment against Microsoft, since its announcement of Windows 11, than at any time in the past.  I've hoped for such a thing at every new-Windows-version announcement, but people are sheep (as you so clearly already know) and it hasn't happened.  Until now, when you betrayed everyone who believed your promises, when you announced Windows 10, that it was going to be the last version of Windows.  Some of us only allowed our defenses to drop, and invested in Windows 10 systems, because of that promise -- only to find ourselves suddenly betrayed by the completely unexpected announcement of Windows 11 -- myself, only four months after allowing into my home my first-ever Windows 10 system, indeed my first brand new Windows computer since probably 2004ish.  I've been kicking myself for a fool, ever since the announcement, and any time anybody within my hearing expresses a similar resentment, I urge them to draw their line in the sand, and never go Windows 11.  I certainly won't, and so far I've heard the same from a lot of other people.  My hope and my prayer is that Microsoft finally gets what's coming to them: wholesale abandonment by the user community, and utter, devastating, collapse and bankruptcy.   (If at some point you find you need to sell off intellectual property to make payroll for another few weeks, I'll give you ten grand for all of Windows XP: source, build tools, documentation, you name it: everything necessary to bring the product back to life outside your grubby fingers.  This is a one time offer and the amount will only ever go down.  Take it or leave it.)

(Insert forty paragraphs of enraged, white-hot bile and invective, here.)

[Greg_E999]

Chris,

Not a sheep here, I have serious concerns about win11 and will be exploring those once I finally have hardware that is allowed to run it (sore spot #1). But that's a different topic.

What I suggest you do is join the ReactOS community and help develop it into a real release that works on real hardware. Or pick a Linux system and go with it. I'm guessing that most of your applications are old, and therefor probably work fine under the Wine (or others) emulation.

Yes XP was good, so was win7, and so is (for the most part) win10. I do wish that Microsoft had kept the XP emulation that they allowed for win7pro so that we could keep some old applications running, but being a big project like XP was, there were security holes and you just can't keep going forward constantly patching the past. But still should have included the VM since they already made the code and image. (yes I know, virtual box, et. al.)

I will throw this back out there for Microsoft... Why don't you allow anyone with a Pro license to "downgrade" to LTSC? It is a subset of features so there shouldn't be any real issues other than lack of (some) telemetry. And lack of bloat, it would be worth an extra $30 (one time) to be able to downgrade from Pro to LTSC if you are going to claim that Candy Crush and other bloat helps pay for the OS. Or is it really about selling all our data? Is it time for a GDPR in the USA and at the OS level where we can control it? (different discussion)

Critical yet polite, and much better than some discussions on these topics at other places. People are very passionate about some of these changes, and not in a good way. I hope that the executives will take Windows in a slightly different direction than where they seem to be going.

[Tammy104]

Hi all, 

Just wondering what other pharmas and IT providers of specialty devices are doing now that new release intel chips are no longer compatible with LTSC 2019. Have you decided to go to one of the 5 iot partners to get the 10 year LTSC 2021 or are you deciding to shorten the lifespan on your devices and use the EA version of LTSC 2021 ?

[Greg_E999]

Gladly (or maybe not) by the time the 5 years are done my software will probably have moved on to Win11 (or 12), so I'm just on the "regular" LTSC 2021 (21h2). The rest of our college is still on normal release 21h1 Enterprise. From what I've seen, Win11 is going to be an even bigger issue for places like your work, from what I can tell with the limited time I've spent, Win11 is pretty much forcing Microsoft or Azure accounts. Again this may be different for Enterprise and LTSC W11, and I have tons more learning to do. Only just received a computer that is supported back in May and been busy refreshing a classroom and a bunch of non-computer tasks all summer.

If you have time, can you go through the process of getting the IOT licenses? Might help other people down the road. I know I don't see them in our licensing center, I think we are E5 but I don't really handle the licensing part. I just report how many of which products I need, and which keys I'm using and someone else takes care of the money part.

[Tammy104]

@Greg_E999 yes I am trying to work with one of the iot partners to get them so I will post once we see what the process is like. They can't be part of an EA right now but we are hoping that Microsoft is listening and makes them available through volume licensing in the next year. 

I am very concerned about your comments on W11. A small percentage of our vendors provide computers with instruments and if they provide us with a device that forces an azure acct that will not work for our space. I am hoping the vendors get better at getting the right version of Windows with the IoT partners and sell us the LTSC 10 year version but we always have pockets of suppliers that insist on using retail windows that will be nightmare to deal with.

[Greg_E999]

The whole desktop team here at the college is concerned about W11, and they have Azure running for everything... I have a local little network all to myself and I am very concerned about how things may need to change. Hoping that within the next 4 years Microsoft listens and helps some of us out, I want to be able to provide our department's services to our students when the internet connection is out, we've already seen that once since we switched to Azure and Office 365 for most everything. Not a happy day at work when this happens.

What I can tell you so far is Server 2022 is OK, you can run this locally without issues. But the TPM2, secure boot, etc. requirements with Win11 is going to make this slightly more challenging for my little system.

Here's a thought that might get you out of a tough situation... Could you run Server on these machines? Typically it is supported for longer, and at this moment doesn't require the newest hardware. And that said, IOT would be nice to have, I have some "appliances" that should be running an IOT or embedded OS but currently run Win10Pro, some of them I just received a few weeks ago that were built to order. That should be fun in another few years!

[mohsin_zia]

Hi

What is the security patch release cycle for ITSC 21H2, need to know when MS plan to release patches for LTSC 21H2 this year?

[Tammy104]

@mohsin_zia Patches are monthly, until the 5 years of life hits Jan 2027.