Kaizala vs Yammer vs Teams vs Skype For Business vs Office 365 Groups

[Joel Janke]

You guys seem to have a bit of ADD when it comes to collaboration applications these days.   I kind of thought everything was starting to come together with Teams being new flagship product, but then I see you release Kaizala to Office 365 users.   What exactly is the strategy here?

[#2]

Well, from my laptop here I can use 3 different versions of Excel, one in the browser, one designed to be a native tablet experience and the 'classic' desktop version. Each has some kind of niche.

Office 365 is an all you can eat buffet, you aren't really supposed to eat everything.

I used to find this whole concept hard to grasp, and it was only after spending more time with users that I started to see it differently. I've been a technology architect for over 20 years, I want to see a neat block diagram that shows where everything fits together into a clear strategy, that's what architects do. That's not really how users see things, each have their own views of that diagram, you provide a variety of choices to suit different use cases.

Now, I think the real question here shouldn't be 'Why does Kaizala exist?' but 'Why doesn't Kaizala interoperate with Teams?'.

[#3]

I'll start by saying that I enjoy this conversation, and hearing different points of view that all make sense.

I understand people who say Kaizala could have been built within Teams from the start, extending its capabilities. Now, as developers, we also know how much effort it takes to extend an existing platform while ensuring backward compatibility. This is not ideal in a fast paced and ever evolving environment, like external collaboration is these days. Spin-offs or third parties, like Yammer, Skype or Kaizala, make it much easier to quickly release, test drive or roll back capabilities without hurting the main stream. Kaizala could just as well have ended up as a failed attempt and sent to the trash.

It's a trade off, and overall I feel I am in a sweet spot being an Office 365 consultant these days. I'll just keep blaming Microsoft for the lack of direction and holes, while I'll take the credit for all the cool scenarios ;) . The first thing I did when hearing the Kaizala announcement was to alert a non-profit that has offices in low bandwidth places, in Africa and South America, where a full MS Teams deployment would have been a hassle.

[#4]

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@Steven Collier wrote:

Office 365 is an all you can eat buffet, you aren't really supposed to eat everything.

I used to find this whole concept hard to grasp, and it was only after spending more time with users that I started to see it differently. I've been a technology architect for over 20 years, I want to see a neat block diagram that shows where everything fits together into a clear strategy, that's what architects do. That's not really how users see things, each have their own views of that diagram, you provide a variety of choices to suit different use cases.

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I have to agree with @Steven Collier on this. Microsoft is trying to find adoption of their product through different means. While, they have an overall idea of how things should fit together, there are markets and ideas where it will be utilized differently.  I am the Microsoft champion for my organization but Kaizala will not come up in the conversation for us, Teams is where it is at and we are driving that product for adoption now.

Microsoft has always been good at giving us multiple solutions to the same problem and then let us pick the right one for ourselves. It does get to be a big headache when you are trying to sell a solution and someone say, "well what about this...". But, each of us will find that solution that will fit the best for our respective organizations.

[#5]

I have the same Question. Whats the intend / Purpose of this?

[#6]

Yes I agree, why shouldn't Microsoft just release a 'light' ms team who can accommodate chat function in ms team?

So for the user who has limited internet connection, they can install light ms teams.

But the system is still integrated as 1 product.

[#7]

Hello All

This is an ask related to Kaizala implementation...

Would like to understand , if by any means we can restrict the Responses from individual to be seen by ALL members of the group (individual is member of the group).

Given a scenario, where Customer Service and Customers are members of a group then, we do not want to show each Customer's response to all other Customers. But Customer Service Representative can see the response from the Customer.

Can you please help how to configure Kaizala to achieve this feature?

[#8]

Thanks for the thorough response Karuana. I'm in one of your emerging markets, Kenya, and it seems to me that the only unique feature of Kaizala is the ability to join via mobile number (ie: no AAD required). Why not just add this ability to Teams (or Teams 'lite' as some are calling for) and call it a day. No need for another app to confuse us all on! (And while I see the appeal, even folks in emerging markets are confused.)

[#9]

But why have Yammer? Why not have a Teams group that includes everyone? And then discuss any questions from that Public Team in a Private Team?

[#10]

@mjschmidt  There is a limit to how many users you can have in a team/channel. There is a max of 2,500 users. If your organization is larger than that, I would suggest using Yammer for a full organization announcement.

[#11]

There is still something about the way Teams works which means it is not as good for discussion.  The Teams environment is about "what it says on the tin" - for teams - for people with tasks and actions  - for operational conversation "who is doing what when".  Yammer is good for discussion "why do we do things this way, how can we improve this aspect of our organisation, what do people across the organisation think about this environmental strategy.

In my organisation people are already getting "Teamed out" - people are creating Teams for group activity which would be better served by Outlook connected Office365 groups or by Yammer groups. 

[#12]

Kaizala is a tool that will extend Office 365 Power and capabilities to eld line workers who don't sith at a desk and use a PC 

Theis was primarily designed for Emerging Markets 

[#13]

Karuana,

Thank you for explaining the vision/role of Kaizala in the 365 environment. I found the graphic posted by @Christopher Graves to be very informative.  

Slightly off topic, is there a place where the rest of the O365 environment is illustrated in a similar way? I am relatively new to O365 and would like to get a better idea of Microsoft's macro-vision of how organizations might implement the various apps and their functionality.  These visual representations will help to instruct the users we need to onboard.

Maybe @Christopher Graves could tell me where he found the first illustration?

Thank you.

[#14]

no kidding

[#15]

@EricLam  Graphic inner loop vs outer loop has been used since 2017 see here: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/Community-Management/We-took-the-Inner-Loop-and-Outer-Loop-vi...

Being used here: https://www.microsoft.com/itshowcase/Article/Content/1036/A-foundation-for-modern-collaboration-Micr...

[#16]

Collaboration overload ... where's that HBR article again ... seriously MS need have a serious think about all of this.  Inner loop / outer loop - is anyone actually using this anymore?

[#17]

 @Garry Rawlins @jason drew said  "You really hit the nail on the head with the overlapping functionality. Instead of having one app that does everything, all these apps have major downfalls that force us to look at other solutions."

Office 365 is the one app - but Microsoft is business that is selling product to a wide spread of diverse industries.  "One-size fits all" is very hard to do.  The diversity of product within Office 365 creates problems but so does a monolithic product with no variety.  This is the conundrum.

"Inner loop / outer loop - is anyone actually using this anymore?" - @Garry Rawlins can you explain what you are getting at?

[#18]

@Garry Rawlins  I believe that @Christopher Graves mentioned the link to the "inner and outer circles" and stated that it has been used since 2017. I believe it is still relevant.

[#19]

This is so point on, They seem to be throwing allot at wall. I will say they are working at a faster changes updates and decommissions, schedule, The problem out side the 80% issue that will can live with, is you embrace the MS APP then its broadly change, or redundant to another APP.

[#20]

Exactly right. Slack is not and can't possibly the answer for every solution. We've found it quite ineffective internally and in some external cases and opted for Teams—having come from HipChat. I think having an integrated yet diverse product offering allows users to select the best tool for the specific scenario and existing flows rather than refactoring their internal processes to match a new tool.

[#21]

Absolutely the best explanation. Thanks for this concise comparison.