08-22-2019 03:28 PM
08-22-2019 07:52 PM
The stable version hasn't been released yet. At least not the official version. The "Beta" channel just opened up a few days ago which is considered the most "stable" of the three insider (beta browsers) channels.
08-22-2019 08:01 PM - edited 08-22-2019 08:02 PM
Hi & welcome,
I don't want people being confused. So, I have a request & a question...
Please, be explicit in telling what you mean by "hanging around on the internet".
Where are you (& or others) seeing this so-called "Stable Version"? Where is this term showing? I have been beta testing for MS for many years, Operating Systems & other products and have not, until now, here, seen this term applied. Who or where is using this phrase, especially, at this point in time in regard to Edge Chromium when we are a long way from DONE?
08-22-2019 10:54 PM - edited 08-25-2019 05:06 AM
You're probably gonna need the Canary version if you're looking for stability and things to work.
even Beta that is officially released is literally a broken browser with bugs and missing features.
experience shows that the Edge insider channel that is updated most regularly is the most stable one.
08-23-2019 02:33 AM - edited 08-23-2019 03:19 AM
@Drew1903 "Where are you (& or others) seeing this so-called "Stable Version"? Where is this term showing?"
The so-called "Stable" release is a leaked, bootleg version that has received relatively widespread discussion. Do a internet search for "Edge Chromium Stable" and you'll find the articles.
"I have been beta testing for MS for many years, Operating Systems & other products and have not, until now, here, seen this term applied. Who or where is using this phrase, especially, at this point in time in regard to Edge Chromium when we are a long way from DONE?"
"Canary", "Dev", "Beta" and "Stable" are terms Microsoft adopted from the Chromium Project, which uses those terms to describe build levels. Microsoft has not used that terminology in the past (for example, Windows Insider builds are code-named -- 20H1 -- and build-named, but branched only in the sense that Microsoft releases different builds to various "rings" -- "Skip Ahead", "Fast", "Slow"), so it is not surprising that if your experience with testing software is has been confined to Microsoft products, you have not run across the term "Stable".
In the Open Source (e.g. FOSS) development world, "Stable" is a term used to define builds that are released to the general public for use (not testing) and are supported.
Obviously, that is not the case here -- the so-called "Stable" version has not been released by Microsoft and is not supported. The so-called "Stable" version of Edge Chromium is a leaked build, almost certainly of a version that was put on Microsoft servers in order to test delivery/upgrade mechanisms in-house. According to what I've read about it, the "Stable" version of Edge Chromium "replaces" Edge Classic, no doubt in the same way as the "Edge Replaces Edge" unintended release and boondoggle did.
Two things to note:
(1) Anyone who is installs the so-called "Stable" version is doing so at their own risk. I won't go so far as to call such people "fools", but I'm tempted because installing bootleg, unsupported software defines "foolish".
(2) If Microsoft follows Chromium Project conventions, there will always be a "Stable" version, but that version will change over time (see description of how FOSS development uses the term, above) as new builds are promoted to "Stable" (that is, released and supported) status. "Stable", in terms of version, is (like "Canary", "Dev" and "Beta") a relative term.
Welcome to the world of open-source software, Drew.
08-23-2019 02:56 AM
Yes to all, Tom. And it's , also, why I wrote a note in here a moment ago, (just before reading this note from you) warning Folks to stay the heck away from this 'Stable Version'. It's trying to portray itself as some finished non-beta version... come on, people, WE ARE NOT ANYWHERE NEAR THAT STAGE, YET:exclamation_mark: It's some leaked piece of rubbish, DO NOT USE IT!
When (new) Edge is done & non-beta as in GA meaning General Availability, meaning to & for everyone not, just Insiders, anymore.
08-25-2019 12:13 AM
I purposely took one of my old laptops (not used anymore almost not usable due to age) and downloaded it, installed it, than deleted it to test it from WalkingCat's site. When deleting it informed me I was deleting an insider version (with the questionnaire of why I'm deleting it) which seem to be an old version of Edge Dev. So it's just a bootleg (hack) of Dev version made to look like a stable version. The uninstaller was the giveaway.
It reminds me back in late 1997/early 98 when warez pirates on IRC were taking Windows 95 and somehow modifying the name a bit to Windows 98 claiming it was a "leaked pre-stable release of Windows 98" when it was nothing more tha a hack up of Windows 95 made to look like a leaked version of Win 98 even though Windows 98 was closed source. It happens a lot and like others said I would stay clear of it and only download Edge Canary, Dev, and/or Beta.
Tor is infamous for doing this with Firefox (Mozilla' being fine with it) as they simply took Firefox ESP and replaced the name Firefox with the the Tor name over it and declared it "The Tor Browser" when it's nothing more than Firefox ESP. Most people using Tor don't know they're using Firefox ESP lol.
08-25-2019 12:45 AM - edited 08-25-2019 12:46 AM
They still do. one of the most popular one is called Wzor (.net). that guy has a Twitter account too and publishes his own homebrew version of Microsoft products. I don't know how some people can trust those distros..they can easily embed a backdoor.
I think Tor is infamous because of the darkweb stuff, otherwise it's something like VPNs, but more secure. Tor has its own browser though for Android (last time i checked it was still in Beta phase).
08-25-2019 01:31 AM - edited 08-25-2019 05:11 AM
@ItalianAce "Tor is infamous for doing this with Firefox (Mozilla' being fine with it) as they simply took Firefox ESP and replaced the name Firefox with the the Tor name over it and declared it "The Tor Browser" when it's nothing more than Firefox ESP. Most people using Tor don't know they're using Firefox ESP lol."
I don't use Tor or have any interest in the Tor browser, but I think something needs to be said: The Tor browser is an independent browser based on Mozilla's Firefox ESR branch. It is not Firefox ESR with the name changed and that alone.
The Tor Project takes Firefox ESR code and changes/adds patches to the base code to (a) enhance anonymity, (b) enhance privacy and security in a number of ways, (c) in most recent iterations, embed various Tor extensions directly into the modified browser. The Tor browser also changes a number of Firefox preferences from the default configuration. The details are readily available in Tor Project documentation about the browser if you are interested in the details.
What Tor is doing (developing a specialized branch/fork of existing open source code to meet specific needs) is common in the world of open source software (the branching and forking from Star Office to OpenOffice.org, then to Apache OpenOffice and LibreOffice is a good example), and (in general, with limitations) freely permitted under open source licenses so long as the branched/forked code remains open source rather than proprietary.
The Tor browser branch/fork of Firefox ESR is not at all similar to the situations you describe.
08-25-2019 05:08 AM
08-25-2019 05:23 AM - edited 08-25-2019 05:24 AM
08-25-2019 05:41 AM - edited 08-25-2019 05:52 AM
@HotCakeX "Unlike the previously leaked beta versions, this time the stable leaks come straight from Microsoft servers, so they are safe."
The so-called "Stable" version does come from Microsoft servers (as the article from the trade press that I linked to indicated) and it may well be "safe".
But I'll stick with what I said, if it is all the same to you:
"In the Open Source (e.g. FOSS) development world, "Stable" is a term used to define builds that are released to the general public for use (not testing) and are supported.
Obviously, that is not the case here -- the so-called "Stable" version has not been released by Microsoft and is not supported. The so-called "Stable" version of Edge Chromium is a leaked build, almost certainly of a version that was put on Microsoft servers in order to test delivery/upgrade mechanisms in-house. According to what I've read about it, the "Stable" version of Edge Chromium "replaces" Edge Classic, no doubt in the same way as the "Edge Replaces Edge" unintended release and boondoggle did."
The fact that the so-called "Stable" version on Microsoft servers is Version 77.0.235 (apparently, an earlier Dev version) and the released Dev version is Version 22.214.171.124 (Official build) dev (64-bit) lends credence to my suggestion that the so-called "Stable" version was put on Microsoft servers in order to test delivery/upgrade mechanisms in-house. The so-called "Stable" version is outdated and was clearly not intended for release, in any event. It isn't a version that offers anything to anyone beyond Microsoft in-house staff.
@Drew1903 "Tom, IMO, at this point in time, no matter the source, they are leaked, premature and absolutely NOT recommend, at all!"
I don't suggest otherwise, and never have suggested otherwise. Leaked versions of Microsoft's (and other developer's) software in development are discovered all the time, and distribution/use of leaked versions is often illegal. It is, in addition, often foolish, as is the case here. What is gained by installing a weeks-old version of Edge Chromium, by definition less stable and less complete than officially released Canary, Dev and Beta versions available legally?
As I noted in the earlier comment, "Anyone who is installs the so-called "Stable" version is doing so at their own risk."
08-25-2019 09:47 AM
Yeah it's best to stick with the insider channels that are Canary, Dev, Beta. When it goes stable or live stable, it goes stables. I get more out of Canary than any of the versions because of it's frequent updating and starting point of test features so for now I'm using Canary.
08-25-2019 12:28 PM
08-25-2019 12:39 PM - edited 08-25-2019 12:40 PM
Don't forget that this is an intentional move by Microsoft putting that version of Edge insider on their servers, calling it stable and making it public for everyone to download. I'm not getting into the why though.
would be foolish to think that Microsoft did it by accident. thinking like that = saying Microsoft can't keep their servers secure.
08-25-2019 03:19 PM
08-25-2019 03:53 PM
@ItalianAce I don't know that the Tor developers or their clientele are good, bad or indifferent. Probably a mix of good, bad and indifferent, as is usually the case with human beings. In any event, that is not a question at issue in my response to you.
My only concern was to correct a statement you made in your earlier comment "... they simply took Firefox ESP and replaced the name Firefox with the the Tor name over it and declared it "The Tor Browser" when it's nothing more than Firefox ESP...", which I believe to be factually inaccurate.
I suggested only that (a) Tor developers did not simply rebrand Firefox as Tor (as your comment suggested), but instead developed a fork/branch of Firefox ESR code to meet the needs of the Tor Project; (b) the Tor Project's fork/branch of Firefox ESR code followed more or less standard practice in the Open Source community; and (c) the use of Firefox code almost certainly conformed to applicable licenses, which often includes the requirement that the revised fork/branch refer to the code from which the fork/branch was developed.**
I don't think we have an argument, or should allow one to develop.
** See, for example, the reference in Edge Chromium: "This browser is made possible by the Chromium open source project and other open source software." The references link to The Chromium Projects and to a list of licensed open source software used in Edge Chromium to date. That's standard practice under Open Source licensing, and I assume (without knowing, because I've never used the Tor browser) that Tor does something similar.
08-25-2019 06:34 PM - edited 08-25-2019 06:47 PM
@tomscharbach Well this is where we have to agree to disagree. I see it as Tor having taken Firefox ESP (not the Quantum engine itself) and building upon it (or on top of it might be better put) with Mozilla support. Tor developers adding their own "added security/privacy" bells and whistles to it and tied in the opening screen that logs you into Tor Network (which with some reg key changes can be disabled so that the browser can be used without having to access the Tor Network.) Usually when a new stable version of Firefox ESP comes out Tor follows up with a new stable upgrade within a week or so. The change log for Tor 9.0a5 even states "update Firefox to 60.0er" and "This release features important security updates to Firefox." https://blog.torproject.org/new-release-tor-browser-90a4
Even the .exe of Tor in it's browser folder is called firefox.exe (unless they changed it, I last used Tor in May, 2019 but no longer keep the browser on my computer) and all firefox extensions work on it. For me it seems more like Firefox ESR is built off of Quantum engine (formerly Gecko) while Tor is built on top of Firefox ESR which itself is built off of Quantum, and Tor stamping (slowly over time) their name over it (here and there) since it's all open source. Where as Opera based/built their browser since 2013 directly off of Chromium (or Edge is now doing like you mentioned...building directly off of Chromium) instead of say Opera or Edge building on top of Chrome stable which in itself is built off of the Chromium engine. Although I believe Chrome is still mostly closed source (where as Chromium is open source).
There's is...or was...I don't know if it's still in talks of Firefox (Mozilla) merging Tor into their regular Firefox browser as a specialized window of it's own (like the inprivate window but in Firefox case it will open up a private tab that connects you to the Tor network) and adding in the rest of Tor's originally add-on security/privacy codec. https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/mozilla-firefox-tor-mode-likely-to-start-as-a-browser...
Tor developers are hard to say. On one side they talk about freedom of speech and allowing people to view websites in private without being monitored or restricted but on another side users have noticed Tors lack of interest in taming or shutting down onion sites known to buy, sell, trade illegal stuff and Tor seems to be anti-NSA to the point of absurdity.
I used Firefox Nightly on/off over the years, but I never clicked with Firefox. Back in the early days of Netscape I used Netscape before IE 1.0 came along and after that I used IE into 2015 before switching to Edge. I use just Edge now and occasional Google Chrome Canary and once in a blue moon I'll download that day's current built version of Chromium (blue Chrome icon) to see if a bug I found in Edge/Chrome Canary is also found in the original Chromium.
08-25-2019 07:51 PM
Let's have this (wait for it) repeated one more & wishfully, last time. To keep it simple & 100% focused on the critical point. We waited a while for the Beta Channel. At a later date there will be a Stable Channel (at which time Canary ends & is promoted to Dev whilst Dev is promoted to Beta; clear as mud, yet?) Anyway...
Here is the one nutshell caveat to live by, at all points in time:
--> Download, install & use ONLY Edge C (Official Insider) Channels ONLY from HERE:exclamation_mark: <--
08-25-2019 09:07 PM - edited 08-25-2019 09:11 PM
@Drew1903 - We agree about the Stable channel at a later date, and for users not to download/use claimed versions into MS releases it officially. So the Edge insider channels will end once Stable is released. Is that a confirmed thing? Some of us were wondering about that and assumed Microsoft would follow Google's route with the Canary, Dev, Beta channels by continuing them even after Stable is released with the insider channels being a flow from Canary up to Beta for testers/insiders that are open to using them on top of the stable version. Mainly because Google Chrome has the same (Can, Dev, Beta) channel flow for Chrome since around 2011 even though they have of course their stable version. I've been using Chrome Canary as a secondary browser for a few years now. Ref: https://www.google.com/chrome/canary/ & https://www.google.com/chrome/dev/
08-25-2019 10:09 PM
Personally, I do not know what the 'long-term' plan is for Edge Insiders once Edge C moves to non-beta, to a non-Insider. But, do I think it is likely EIP (Edge Insider Program) after that?, yes I do. There is something to remember, here. If we go back a few years beta testing did not involve the 'public' not, Consumers or Enterprise. Starting w/ Vista one has to apply & be accepted as a registered MS Beta Tester, then 7 & 8 by invitation. It was when we started working on 10 that the Insider Program materialized. Since & now we have Windows, Office, Bing & Edge Insiders (people like myself can be all 4). There is obvious logic, besides the meaningful Open Source part, that Edge Insiders & the work, can continue, the same as the other Insider Programs. Point is, we did not have Insiders working on products before the last few years. Now, that such approaches are in place, they can invaluably keep working 'behind-the-scenes' to have ever improving & (theoretically) problem-free highly appealing products. Involving Users in the work is very productive; especially, when both Consumers & Enterprise are represented.
Without fussing over names of tracks or how many, point is there is a trend, now, for Insider Programs to exist & plow ahead with their work, for the benefit of all, even after a product goes "GA", to use a non-Chromium term. (Stable being similar to RTM, if one wants to think of it like that). GA = General Availability, as in Official 'Public' release, not beta version & not Insider version. Same as Win10 1903 18362 and then, simultaneously some of us, Windows Insiders, are, also, running frequent Insider Builds w/ a current Build # of 18965. No reason, at all of Edge not doing the same thing, fundamentally; won't surprise me, at all.
08-26-2019 12:07 AM
@Drew1903 Yeah, I hear ya. I remember the Windows 95/98 days of what you said. Beta testing wasn't public open, and it was as you said about applying. Even with non-Microsoft products where sometimes you had to filled out information identifying you had some "computer or software knowledge" (sometimes even asking if you knew C++) to even be considered to beta test software. It wasn't a "open to anyone that wants to jump on board and download the preview builds." Especially in the late 90's when a majority of software was closed source. Today open source is the popular road and it's more public open for beta testing. Every popular browser has channels like these for open public beta testing. Firefox has their Nightly (canary), Dev, Beta builds you can download. Opera same thing (Dev, Beta, Stable) even Apple's Safari has a preview (beta) browser you can use along side their stable version. Heck even Samsung Internet Browser now has a "Beta" version for their android devices (to be downloaded).
I also believe there's a marketing standpoint behind it (at least by Google). Google has their Chrome beta channels (identical to Edge's in name and time frame of update). But they don't just leave them on their web page in obscurity for people to find, they market them out as if they're four separate browsers even indicating they are separate and can run separate from each other. Google declares their version of Canary as "unstable" but with a "bleeding edge of trying all the new features first" type of tag line. And so on and so with Dev and Beta. They not only have the OS versions but Android and iOS where they push them in the play store. Google Chrome Canary has 4.3 stars on the play store with 29,000+ votes. Their Dev browser has 4.3 (or 4.4 as it bounces) with 76,000 user votes and Beta 271,000 users vote around 4.5 stars. So marketing wise it's as if Google has four browsers on the market not just one stable browser and in the background the betas. So whats my point on all this rambling on lol? I can see Microsoft in an attempt of marketing and bringing in more user share keeping open the three insider channels in a way to get people to test the features of each channel but as a way to market four browsers (even if three are beta) to users.
Yes the Edge beta's might not have user support and all that stuff...but from a MS standpoint I would want a user to be using Edge Canary to get their "new feature" fix instead of Chrome Canary or Firefox Nightly (it's there beta version that updates every night) and not to have just my one stable browser competing against Chrome's four browsers that are all promoted out. Now I'm sounding as as if the other three channels aren't beta. We all know they are beta's...Google and MS know they are...and of course we all know what the word beta and alpha is in pre-release software testing, but the way Google "advertises/promotes" they make it seem it is more of "testing new feature before anyone else" than a "beta test Chrome here for future stable releases". Only time the word beta is used by Google with Chrome is with having the word "Beta" across their Beta Chrome icon.
When I go Google Play Store and simply put in just the word "Chrome" I get this come up:
When I put in "Edge" I get this come up:
It looks like Google has four browsers "three with new features to test out before everyone else" while Microsoft has only one stable browser. So I wouldn't be surprised to see the Insider Channels stay. As a way to keep the flow of insider testing going as Chrome does with their channels and to market (especially if they make an android version of their new Edge C). Edge as having one supported stable version but three other versions to test out "new features before everyone else" so keep Edge users and newbies in the Edge family and not wander off to try out new features of the beta versions of Chrome and Firefox.
I went off topic of the original post of the, but it's something interesting when it comes to Edge and Insider Program and getting a high user base to use and/or switch to the new Edge.
08-26-2019 12:24 AM
08-26-2019 12:35 AM
08-26-2019 01:04 AM
Cool, so we agree the Edge Insider Program is likely to continue. The scenario you suggest, as I said, is similar to other MS Insider Programs such as Windows 10. There is regular Win10. AND there are Insider Builds AND more than one track of those and they receive Builds/Updates at different rates AND all Insider Builds are betas. So, add Open Source into the equation and there's even more impetus to keep it going; means there is both Feedback AND Developer/IT input, PLUS, now coming from the whole gamut of Users from Home to Business. The marketing aspect is two-fold and some of us saw this (coming) years ago. (1) It creates interest, awareness, familiarity & (hopefully) enthusiasm to use the product even before it's released, in the traditional sense. And (2) it means the Global customer ultimately receives a better & more problem-free item than, otherwise. Likely EIP will, indeed, continue, regardless of number of Channels in the 'background' (so to speak) to the NON-beta, NON-Insider Edge C, once that drops.
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