Please -Bring over the classic Edge Favorits experience with pin-able side menu!

Occasional Contributor

The Chrome experience with favorites is really subpar and hugely frustrating to use! This is my top peeve to new Chrome Edge..

 

If you have many favs in nested folders to navigate, the cascading menues overlap multiple times. Making it hard to get to your favorite shortcut and even a simple mistake (such as right clicking on wrong place, forces you to click outside of the popup menu, collapsing the whole tree down, or choosing the wonrg favorite, or hovering outside of the opened menu tree etc etc) cause the whole menu to collapse, forcing you to start over.

 

You can’t pin the chrome fav menu open to launch several favorites in rapid succession, you have to redo the whole process.

 

You cannot edit/move/delete favorites in the sidebar, you have to go to a separate view to do that, whereas in Edge classic it was super easy to do, just pin the favs open and manage away in place.

 

For comparison - see screenshots below

 

So: Please, please PLEASE… bring the Edge classic favorite experience back.Chromeium super frustrating menuChromeium super frustrating menu

 

Edge Classic: clean, user friendly, easy to use + + +Edge Classic: clean, user friendly, easy to use + + +

 

 

35 Replies
Oh right the last one opens to the right, was hard to notice,
i think they need to be scaled down or Microsoft could add animation to the way they are opened so they could be stacked up in front of each other like cards, just my idea. OR use the Edge classic's style :)
in the end, I agree with you that the current favorites menu style in Edge insider needs to change.


@Fredrik Ståhlbrandt 

Good thoughts, well said & very valid, Fred. They don't know what they're missing. IF we can roll other Edge HTML things into OUR Chromium-based browser, such as Add notes & Share or a better tech searching in the address bar and more... surely, we can roll into OURS the better approach to Favs.

Anyway, that's my thought on the matter.

Cheers,
Drew

@tomscharbach 

Tom, Fred,

Since it does seem 99.9999 agree on this, we need to hope & praying the Team hears & acts on it.  Especially, when included are comments from Enterprise customers which, is such major revenue for MS.

BTW, couple of excellent lines in here saying, "Just because it's bad doesn't mean we want to use it plus, WE have a better way"

Cheers,
Drew

@tomscharbach 

"perhaps we should be asking Microsoft to change the default UI everywhere else from nested list UI to flyout UI." Tom

OMG, Tom, NOOooooo! :facepalm:  Thank god you're joking.

Obviously what we are advocating is putting OUR better approach to Chromium Edge, not, putting something bad & disliked all the places we have something good (better), now, already.  Such lack of logic & common sense is laughable.


@tomscharbach 

"Can you point us to the extension", Tom

Tom, not only I didn't recall any such extension(s), before writing this, I just checked both Stores to no avail.

Point is, if it's done right, do not need extensions to make it right... whatever the 'it' is or might be.

Cheers,
Drew

@HotCakeX "i think they need to be scaled down or Microsoft could add animation to the way they are opened so they could be stacked up in front of each other like cards, just my idea. OR use the Edge classic's style :)  in the end, I agree with you that the current favorites menu style in Edge insider needs to change."

 

My preference would be to eliminate flyouts entirely and use the EdgeClassic nested list motif.  The EdgeClassic nested list UI works extremely well, and presents none of the issues that the Chrome-clone flyout UI presents.  Trying to add fixes to the flyout motif is just putting lipstick on the pig, as far as I am concerned.

 

At the risk of boring you (and everyone else) to death, let me expand a bit on how absurd the flyout motif actually is, using exactly the same menu choices I used in my earlier screenshots, but this time using the "Favorites Icon" and going though screen by screen.

 

As background, keep in mind that I am trying to do something very simple -- get to this specific bookmark/favorite as it appears in a nested list (Technology, Linux, Virtual Machine, OSBoxes):

 

Nested Target.jpg

 

Now, keeping that level of simplicity in mind, watch the steps I need to take (and the unholy mess that the flyout menus make of the screen) while I am taking the steps needed to get to that bookmark/favorite.  In each screenshot, the menu outlined in yellow is the menu that opened as a result of the click, that is, the "active menu".

 

Step 1:  Click on the "Favorites Icon"

 

F-1.jpg

 

Step 2:  Click on "Other Favorites"

 

F-2.jpg

 

Step 3:  Click on "Technology"

 

F-3.jpg

 

Step 4:  Click on "Linux"  (Note that the "Linux" menu opens to the right, overlaying menus 1 and 2.)

 

F-4.jpg

 

Step 5:  Click on "Virtual Machines" (Note that this time the menu opens to the left, overlaying menu 3.)

 

F-5a.jpg

 

Finally, after playing Whack-a-Mole with five flyout screens opening on top of one another, I can actually click on the "OS Boxes" link.

 

Look at that last screen.  It is an absolute mess.  Can anyone tell me how I got to that link, just looking at the screenshot?  Or tell me what menus are active and what menus are not without the yellow box outlines I put in?  Or even see what screens are on top of each other?

 

The makework absurdity demonstrated by the screenshots is just the tip of the iceberg of the fundamental, inherent flaws in Chrome's flyout motif.   

 

Others who have commented in this thread have raised a number of serious issues -- like the difficulty of managing bookmarks/favorites in contrast to managing bookmarks/favorites in EdgeClassic's nested list motif, where bookmarks/favorites can be managed right on the list itself, easily and intuitively. 

 

I'm glad those numerous issues were raised, but I focus on two other issues, both related to accessibility:

 

(1) the flyout UI is very difficult to handle by anyone who has an deficiencies in small motor control, because the flyouts are not stable in the way that the nested list in EdgeClassic is stable; and

 

(2) the flyout UI is similarly very difficult (almost impossible, in fact) to use by anyone who has hand tremor issues.

 

I am acutely aware of accessibility issues because I am getting up in years and I have friends who have those issues.   Not everyone is fully abled and not everyone is young with acute vision, steady hands and excellent small motor control.  Just about everywhere else in Windows 10, Microsoft has paid careful attention to accessibility.  But not in the bookmarks/favorites UI. 

 

What is wrong with this?  What's wrong is that bookmarks/favorites are a core component of using a browser productively, and setting a default UI that is not accessible to users with minor disabilities makes the browser less useful than it might otherwise be.

 

Anyway, I think I've said everything I have to say on this issue.  A lot of us have been after Microsoft for seven months now, for a variety of valid and well-stated reasons, and it is clear that Microsoft is going to Chrome-clone the bookmarks/favorites UI nonetheless.  It is a shame.

 

 

@tomscharbach 

"But if we need an extension to make EdgeChromium work in the way that EdgeClassic works (and it works very well in this respect), then so be it.  Extension it  will be", Tom

I suppose. Though, I repeat, since we, actually, can make lots of Edge style things work on Chromium... I, personally, have a hard time believing we can't make OUR better approach to this work on Chromium, without extensions necessary.

Cheers,
Drew


@Drew1903 wrote:

Good thoughts, well said & very valid, Fred. They don't know what they're missing. IF we can roll other Edge HTML things into OUR Chromium-based browser, such as Add notes & Share or a better tech searching in the address bar and more... surely, we can roll into OURS the better approach to Favs.

Share is already available, add notes is being worked on but what is tech searching?

Spoiler

@Drew1903 wrote:

BTW, couple of excellent lines in here saying, "Just because it's bad doesn't mean we want to use it"

that line doesn't seem right..i think you should replace word "bad" with "good" "

Spoiler
@Drew1903 wrote:

"perhaps we should be asking Microsoft to change the default UI everywhere else from nested list UI to flyout UI." Tom
Obviously what we are advocating is putting OUR better approach to Chromium Edge, not, putting something bad & disliked all the places we have something good (better), now, already.  Such lack of logic & common sense is laughable.

whoever that last sentence is pointed at, it's rude.

shouldn't insult someone for the way they think.

 

something bad and disliked all the places? that's not what everyone thinks, we're only a few people in this forum, very limited user opinion.

 

Spoiler
@Drew1903@Drew1903 wrote:


not only I didn't recall any such extension(s), before writing this, I just checked both Stores to no avail.

 

 

I put the link in my post above

here again: 

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/simple-bookmarks/nafmgkhgdblkabfjfegmafagpccaobfg

there are lots of bookmark manager extensions on the Chrome web store.

 

 

 

Spoiler
@Drew1903 wrote:

I suppose. Though, I repeat, since we, actually, can make lots of Edge style things work on Chromium... I, personally, have a hard time believing we can't make our better approach to this work on Chromium, without extensions necessary.

 

Can we? it seems like it's not that easy for the devs to ship exactly the same Edge classic features to the new Edge, they need to rewrite everything to be compatible with the new engines

 

Spoiler
@tomscharbach wrote:

My preference would be to eliminate flyouts entirely and use the EdgeClassic nested list motif.  The EdgeClassic nested list UI works extremely well, and presents none of the issues that the Chrome-clone flyout UI presents.  Trying to add fixes to the flyout motif is just putting lipstick on the pig, as far as I am concerned.

 

At the risk of boring you (and everyone else) to death, let me expand a bit on how absurd the flyout motif actually is, using exactly the same menu choices I used in my earlier screenshots, but this time using the "Favorites Icon" and going though screen by screen.

 

As background, keep in mind that I am trying to do something very simple -- get to this specific bookmark/favorite as it appears in a nested list (Technology, Linux, Virtual Machine, OSBoxes):

 

Nested Target.jpg

 

Now, keeping that level of simplicity in mind, watch the steps I need to take (and the unholy mess that the flyout menus make of the screen) while I am taking the steps needed to get to that bookmark/favorite.  In each screenshot, the menu outlined in yellow is the menu that opened as a result of the click, that is, the "active menu".

 

Step 1:  Click on the "Favorites Icon"

 

F-1.jpg

 

Step 2:  Click on "Other Favorites"

 

F-2.jpg

 

Step 3:  Click on "Technology"

 

F-3.jpg

 

Step 4:  Click on "Linux"  (Note that the "Linux" menu opens to the right, overlaying menus 1 and 2.)

 

F-4.jpg

 

Step 5:  Click on "Virtual Machines" (Note that this time the menu opens to the left, overlaying menu 3.)

 

F-5.jpg

 

Finally, I can actually click on the "OS Boxes" link.

 

But look at that last screen.  It is an absolute mess.  Can anyone tell me how I got that link, just looking at the screenshot?  Or tell me what menus are active and what menus are not without the yellow box outlines I put in?

 

The makework absurdity demonstrated by the screenshots is just the tip of the iceberg of the fundamental, inherent flaws in Chrome's flyout motif.   

 

Others who have commented in this thread have raised a number of serious issues -- like the difficulty of managing bookmarks/favorites in contrast to managing bookmarks/favorites in EdgeClassic's nested list motif, where bookmarks/favorites can be managed right on the list itself, easily and intuitively.  I'm glad those numerous issues were raised, but I focus on two other issues, both related to accessibility:

 

(1) the flyout UI is very difficult to handle by anyone who has an deficiencies in small motor control, because the flyouts are not stable in the way that the nested list in EdgeClassic is stable; and

 

(2) the flyout UI is similarly very difficult (almost impossible, in fact) to use by anyone who has hand tremor issues.

 

I am acutely aware of those issues because I am getting up in years and I have friends who have those issues.   Not everyone is fully abled and not everyone is young.  Just about everywhere else in Windows 10, Microsoft has paid careful attention to accessibility.  But not in the bookmarks/favorites UI.

 

Anyway, I think I've said everything I have to say on this issue.  A lot of us have been after Microsoft for seven months now, and it is clear that Microsoft is going to Chrome-clone the bookmarks/favorites UI.  It is a shame.

Yeah I started agreeing with you since my last post because I also saw the real issue with flyout menus.

it's good that they are simple but the problem is they are too simple and things like nested bookmarks can be a challenge for that style. (i don't know if anything else other than nested bookmarks can be challenging?)

 

@HotCakeX "Yeah I started agreeing with you since my last post because I also saw the real issue with flyout menus. [I]t's good that they are simple but the problem is they are too simple and things like nested bookmarks can be a challenge for that style."

 

I don't understand why multiple flyout menus (Google Chrome and EdgeChromium) are simpler than a static nested list (EdgeClassic and Firefox), but I'd be interested in understanding more, if you are willing to expand on this thought. I'm also curious about whether there are advantages other than simplicity to a flyout UI over a nested list UI, if you have thoughts on that question. It seems to me that both flyout and nested list motifs depend on hierarchical organization (if the user is going to bother to organize at all), and differ only in the way in which the hierarchy is presented (flyout versus nested list).

 

"(i don't know if anything else other than nested bookmarks can be challenging?)"

 

Obviously, there is the accessibility issue I've been discussing, although that issue does not affect people with acute vision, steady hands and excellent small motor control. Whether or not accessibility is an issue worth noting depends, I guess, on your perspective, and there are several excellent alternative browsers that are more fully accessible than either Chrome or EdgeChromium.

 

There are also a few additional issues that have been mentioned in this thread, as you know:

 

(1) The Google/Microsoft implementation does not allow users to "pin open" the favorites/bookmarks flyout menus, but instead requires users to redo the open-flyout menus for each new favorite/bookmark, making it impossible to launch several favorites/bookmarks in rapid succession.

 

(2) Favorites/bookmarks cannot be managed directly in the favorites/boomarks menus, but instead users need to open a separate "Manage Favorites" tab in order to manage favorites/bookmarks.

 

(3) The slightest misstep in handling the flyout menus (for example, clicking outside the active menu) causes the flyout to collapse in whole or in part, requiring a redo.

 

The issues mentioned in this thread are not a complete list, of course. It might be helpful for you to go back and take a look at earlier related threads if you want a fuller understanding of what the issues are.

 

Microsoft's implementation of the flyout motif presents an additional issue, though, because there are two access points, each with a different structure and each which behaves slightly differently.

 

The first access point is through the Chrome-cloned favorites/bookmarks structure, which deploys a "Favorites Bar" that, in default mode, allows a user to pin links/folders to the bar and has an "Other Favorites" folder at the far right, a folder holding all bookmarks/favorites not pinned to the "Favorites Bar". When "Other Favorites" are opened, it takes the user into the flyout menus.

 

MenuStructure-0.jpg

 

The second access point is through EdgeChromium's "Favorites Icon", which opens a dropdown menu replicating the "Favorites Bar" content, and then, when "Other Favorites" is opened from the very bottom of the list, takes a user into the flyout menus.

 

MenuStructure-1.jpg

 

I suspect that Microsoft intends for users to use one or the other, but for users who are used to pinning links to a "Favorites Bar", the dual structure is redundant and potentially confusing.

 

I went back and looked at the threads in which Insiders encouraged Microsoft to bring over the "Favorites Icon" from EdgeClassic to EdgeChromium.

 

What strikes me, in rereading those threads, is that the "Favorites Icon" request was linked with a request that Microsoft also bring over EdgeClassic's nested list UI. The idea, in short, was to replicate EdgeClassic's favorites environment and UI.

 

Microsoft elected, instead, to bring over the "Favorites Icon" access point but use it to replicate Google Chrome's flyout favorites/bookmarks organization.

 

That strikes me as an odd choice, but it seems to me that there is a potential "win-win" to be had because of the dual access point structure of EdgeChromium:

 

First, do what Insiders asked for in the first place, and tie the "Favorites Icon" to the nested list UI that EdgeClassic now uses.

 

Second, allow users to select one or the other UI (that is, EdgeClassic nested list or Google Chrome flyout) during setup, and eliminate whichever method is not chosen from the browser UI.

 

That would seem to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak, because Google Chrome users could have the UI that is familiar to them, and EdgeClassic users could have the UI that is familiar to them.

 

It seems to me that might be a good solution, because if EdgeChromium is going to get any traction at all, it will have to win over Google Chrome users, but it makes little or no sense to alienate EdgeClassic users while trying to do so.

 

In terms of market strategy, it seems to me, it would be a good idea is to build on the existing EdgeClassic user base while bringing over converts from Google Chrome, rather than abandon the existing EdgeClassic user base and hope that it won't make a difference.

 

I will be curious to see what happens with the EdgeClassic user base when EdgeChromium is released.  The changed Favorites UI will be immediately apparent.  It might to turn out to be a problem, or it might not. 

@tomscharbach 

Spoiler

@tomscharbach wrote:

@HotCakeX "Yeah I started agreeing with you since my last post because I also saw the real issue with flyout menus. [I]t's good that they are simple but the problem is they are too simple and things like nested bookmarks can be a challenge for that style."

 

I don't understand why multiple flyout menus (Google Chrome and EdgeChromium) are simpler than a static nested list (EdgeClassic and Firefox), but I'd be interested in understanding more, if you are willing to expand on this thought. I'm also curious about whether there are advantages other than simplicity to a flyout UI over a nested list UI, if you have thoughts on that question. It seems to me that both flyout and nested list motifs depend on hierarchical organization (if the user is going to bother to organize at all), and differ only in the way in which the hierarchy is presented (flyout versus nested list).

 

"(i don't know if anything else other than nested bookmarks can be challenging?)"

 

Obviously, there is the accessibility issue I've been discussing, although that issue does not affect people with acute vision, steady hands and excellent small motor control. Whether or not accessibility is an issue worth noting depends, I guess, on your perspective, and there are several excellent alternative browsers that are more fully accessible than either Chrome or EdgeChromium.

 

There are also a few additional issues that have been mentioned in this thread, as you know:

 

(1) The Google/Microsoft implementation does not allow users to "pin open" the favorites/bookmarks flyout menus, but instead requires users to redo the open-flyout menus for each new favorite/bookmark, making it impossible to launch several favorites/bookmarks in rapid succession.

 

(2) Favorites/bookmarks cannot be managed directly in the favorites/boomarks menus, but instead users need to open a separate "Manage Favorites" tab in order to manage favorites/bookmarks.

 

(3) The slightest misstep in handling the flyout menus (for example, clicking outside the active menu) causes the flyout to collapse in whole or in part, requiring a redo.

 

The issues mentioned in this thread are not a complete list, of course. It might be helpful for you to go back and take a look at earlier related threads if you want a fuller understanding of what the issues are.

 

Microsoft's implementation of the flyout motif presents an additional issue, though, because there are two access points, each with a different structure and each which behaves slightly differently.

 

The first access point is through the Chrome-cloned favorites/bookmarks structure, which deploys a "Favorites Bar" that, in default mode, allows a user to pin links/folders to the bar and has an "Other Favorites" folder at the far right, a folder holding all bookmarks/favorites not pinned to the "Favorites Bar". When "Other Favorites" are opened, it takes the user into the flyout menus.

 

MenuStructure-0.jpg

 

The second access point is through EdgeChromium's "Favorites Icon", which opens a dropdown menu replicating the "Favorites Bar" content, and then, when "Other Favorites" is opened from the very bottom of the list, takes a user into the flyout menus.

 

MenuStructure-1.jpg

 

I suspect that Microsoft intends for users to use one or the other, but for users who are used to pinning links to a "Favorites Bar", the dual structure is redundant and potentially confusing.

 

I went back and looked at the threads in which Insiders encouraged Microsoft to bring over the "Favorites Icon" from EdgeClassic to EdgeChromium.

 

What strikes me, in rereading those threads, is that the "Favorites Icon" request was linked with a request that Microsoft also bring over EdgeClassic's nested list UI. The idea, in short, was to replicate EdgeClassic's favorites environment and UI.

 

Microsoft elected, instead, to bring over the "Favorites Icon" access point but use it to replicate Google Chrome's flyout favorites/bookmarks organization.

 

That strikes me as an odd choice, but it seems to me that there is a potential "win-win" to be had because of the dual access point structure of EdgeChromium:

 

First, do what Insiders asked for in the first place, and tie the "Favorites Icon" to the nested list UI that EdgeClassic now uses.

 

Second, allow users to select one or the other UI (that is, EdgeClassic nested list or Google Chrome flyout) during setup, and eliminate whichever method is not chosen from the browser UI.

 

That would seem to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak, because Google Chrome users could have the UI that is familiar to them, and EdgeClassic users could have the UI that is familiar to them.

 

It seems to me that might be a good solution, because if EdgeChromium is going to get any traction at all, it will have to win over Google Chrome users, but it makes little or no sense to alienate EdgeClassic users while trying to do so.

 

In terms of market strategy, it seems to me, it would be a good idea is to build on the existing EdgeClassic user base while bringing over converts from Google Chrome, rather than abandon the existing EdgeClassic user base and hope that it won't make a difference.

 

I will be curious to see what happens with the EdgeClassic user base when EdgeChromium is released.  The changed Favorites UI will be immediately apparent.  It might to turn out to be a problem, or it might not. 


Alright our thoughts are now aligned on this, you changed my mind :)

my only concern is not to make the favorite menu's sidebar like the Collection's side bar. it pushes the web contents to the left, In Edge classic the favorites sidebar is an overlay on web contents, doesn't change the elements of websites or force them to resize.