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Please -Bring over the classic Edge Favorits experience with pin-able side menu!

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Fredrik Ståhlbrandt
New Contributor

The Chrome experience with favorites is really subpar and hugely frustrating to use! This is my top peeve to new Chrome Edge..

 

If you have many favs in nested folders to navigate, the cascading menues overlap multiple times. Making it hard to get to your favorite shortcut and even a simple mistake (such as right clicking on wrong place, forces you to click outside of the popup menu, collapsing the whole tree down, or choosing the wonrg favorite, or hovering outside of the opened menu tree etc etc) cause the whole menu to collapse, forcing you to start over.

 

You can’t pin the chrome fav menu open to launch several favorites in rapid succession, you have to redo the whole process.

 

You cannot edit/move/delete favorites in the sidebar, you have to go to a separate view to do that, whereas in Edge classic it was super easy to do, just pin the favs open and manage away in place.

 

For comparison - see screenshots below

 

So: Please, please PLEASE… bring the Edge classic favorite experience back.2019-11-20.pngChromeium super frustrating menu

 

2019-11-20 (1).pngEdge Classic: clean, user friendly, easy to use + + +

 

 

35 Replies

@Fredrik Ståhlbrandt 

Fred,

Sure agree with you.  Edge #1 looks like one expects, folders & expand, the usual kind of nav tree. Looks good.  The other, not only what you said about a confusing & looking 'messy', but, just drab & dull, almost juvenile-ish.  Edge #1 (approach) is far more intuitive, you're right about that.

Cheers,
Drew

Nice comparison, everything is so clean and sleek in the Edge classic but looks messy in Edge insider

@Fredrik Ståhlbrandt 

 

Hi:

 

I completely agree with your comment. Managing favorites is still a black dot in the new Edge. There are many open posts requesting solutions for current favorites.

 

As it seems that the subject is going for a long time, this is currently using the extension "Neater Bookmarks" that although it is not a wonder, in my case if it improves the navigation by the favorites, and solves the problem that you are posing in your post.

 

I hope that the development team will soon give us some joy with the management of favorites in the new Edge.

 

a greeting

 

-----------------------
(Spanish)

 

Hola:

 

Estoy completamente de acuerdo con tu comentario. La gestion de favoritos todavia es un punto negro en el nuevo Edge. Hay muchos post abiertos solicitando soluciones para los favoritos actuales.

 

Como parece que el tema va para largo, actualmente esto utilizando la extension "Neater Bookmarks" que aunque no es una maravilla, en mi caso si mejora la navegacion por los favoritos, y soluciona el problema que estas planteando en tu post.

 

Confio que el equipo de desarrollo pronto nos de alguna alegria con la gestion de favoritos en el nuevo Edge.

 

Un saludo

Hi, just wanted to say that the forum automatically translate comments so don't worry about translating your comment manually, just write in your language "Spanish" and we will see the English translation automatically :)

@Fredrik StåhlbrandtI completely agree with this comment.  The favorite menu is like a library and mine has so many nested topics that it makes your head spin to navigate through the new construction.  Also, the folders are topics or related links, so if you want to go from one link to another in the same folder, you have to navigate through the maze all over again.  I remember when another of MSW versions was updated, I was frustrated by the loss of some features, but eventually got over it, but this is different.  The only plus I can see is more screen acreage.

@rjwd1234 

Can quickly be an overwhelming forest of brambles. and thick twisted nettles. Frustrating tedium. Hopefully nobody thought it was a time-saver. It's productive...produces frowns.

Cheers,
Drew

@Fredrik Ståhlbrandt 

Thanks for posting about the issue, and for demonstrating the issue so clearly through your screenshots.

 

The Favorites UI has been a constant source of comment/complaint from the beginning, by me and many, many others.  

 

Favorites UI - Kirk.jpg


Although I initially thought that Microsoft would resolve the problem (based on Elliot's response above), it does not seem that Microsoft intends to change the flyouts to a hierarchical list, because the issue no longer appears on the "Feedback" list.

 

The Favorites UI is abominable, in a word. On a 11-13" laptop the UI is unusable, as flyouts quickly start to overlay each other and it becomes just about impossible to use the UI. As far as I am concerned, the UI also creates accessibility issues, because anyone trying to use the UI who has even slightly impaired small-muscle control and/or any level of hand tremor cannot use the menu at all.

 

I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't change this. For a significant number of people, the current Favorites UI is going to be a roadblock.

"I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't change this. For a significant number of people, the current Favorites UI is going to be a roadblock."

doesn't Google chrome use the same style for bookmarks and still has lots of users? or is there any issues and differences between how Edge insider and Google chrome handle their bookmarks menu?
A couple of things on this I guess;
That there are a lot of Chrome users is not necessarily suggestive that the Chrome favorites experience is good, it might just mean that they accept it as a “lesser” problem for the “greater” overall benefit. – I won’t try to speak for them though, it’s just that for me the current Chrome experience is like stepping back a decade in user friendliness,

On the personal side of it is that I have seen/used and lived with the (imo) far superior classic edge fav experience, and as such also suffer from the clunky, user unfriendly and generally bad fav experience and thus would like to get the superior one rolled into Chromium.

As to the diff between Chrome and Chromium Edge users – it could be as simple that we on the Chromium Edge side of things actually know the subjectively better way whilst Chrome users might not have that previous experience?

@HotCakeX 

Sorry - I meant Favorites Pane for Edge Classic (+) and not sure what it is called in Chromium Edge/Chrome - Favorites Menu/Fly out?

I like one thing about Google Chrome and I think Microsoft should follow that too: Simplicity.
that's Google chrome's motto.
flyout menu, sliding menu, things like that are not simple. in Google chrome there is an arrow, you click/touch it and all the bookmarks are there, no more messing around. easy and fast access to the bookmarks.
there are cluttered browsers like Opera (lots of variants), Firefox etc, fully of unnecessary features. none of them have any significant user base.
for Chromium based browsers, extensions are available, so everyone can customize their browsers the way they want without forcing their opinions on others to accept it. that's very important.

@HotCakeX  "doesn't Google chrome use the same style for bookmarks and still has lots of users?"

 

Lots of people eat way too much fast food, too. That doesn't mean that the food is good.  It just means that a lot of people eat it.

 

@Fredrik Ståhlbrandt "That there are a lot of Chrome users is not necessarily suggestive that the Chrome favorites experience is good, it might just mean that they accept it as a “lesser” problem for the “greater” overall benefit."

 

I agree. The fact that a lot of people have learned to tolerate a poor design is not a reason to replicate it.

 

@Fredrik Ståhlbrandt "I won’t try to speak for them though, it’s just that for me the current Chrome experience is like stepping back a decade in user friendliness."

 

I agree with this, too. Flyout menu design was "the thing" 1995-2005 and Chromium picked it up. But that doesn't mean that it was a good UI solution (even at the time) and it certainly doesn't mean that it should be continued.  EdgeChromium is, as far as I know, the only element of Windows using the flyout UI at this point.  The inconsistency in design motif is glaring.

So you want to force people to use a different UI just because you think it's good for them?

yes people use fast foot a lot but it doesn't matter whether it's good for them or not, who are we to decide?

extensions are made to give people choices.

@HotCakeX "So you want to force people to use a different UI just because you think it's good for them? yes people use fast foot a lot but it doesn't matter whether it's good for them or not, who are we to decide? extensions are made to give people choices."

 

The question we are discussing is which Favorites UI (that is, flyout or nested list) should be the default, not whether extensions allow users to modify the default. 

 

You mentioned in a previous comment that "Simplicity" is a Chrome attribute that you think Microsoft should follow.  Let me ask you, then, looking at Fredrik Ståhlbrandt's screenshots:  "Which is the simpler to comprehend and use, a flyout UI or a nested list UI?" 

 

The nested list UI is used throughout Windows 10.  If the flyout UI is superior for some reason -- and I have yet to see anyone defend it on technical or usability grounds in this Forum -- then perhaps we are barking up the wrong tree.  Instead of asking Microsoft to change the default UI in EdgeChromium from flyout to nested, perhaps we should be asking Microsoft to change the default UI everywhere else from nested list UI to flyout UI.

Everywhere else on Windows 10 is fine, no need to change that.
Flyout menu is simpler but Microsoft made it too big that's why it's worse than Google chrome's bookmark menu. also the logic of nested bookmark folders in the current flyout menu needs improvements, it sometimes opens to the left and sometimes to the right and overlay other entries.

@HotCakeX "Flyout menu is simpler but Microsoft made it too big that's why it's worse than Google chrome's bookmark menu. also the logic of nested bookmark folders in the current flyout menu needs improvements, it sometimes opens to the left and sometimes to the right and overlay other entries."

 

I'll take your word for all of it, but I am getting identical results using EdgeChromium and Google Chrome on my test machine.

 

Google Chrome (the red box indicates the active menu):

 

Flyout-1.jpg

 

EdgeChromium (the red box indicates the active menu):

 

Flyout-2.jpg

 

I wonder if we are ships passing in the night. 

 

I'm concerned with the issues inherent in the flyout menu motif itself (see Fredrik's, Drew's and my comments for examples) rather than the possible slight differences in the way that motif is implemented by EdgeChromium and Google Chome.  Like the many others who have commented over the months on this Forum, I would like Microsoft to abandon the flyout UI entirely and return to the nested list UI used in EdgeClassic.

 

Nested List (red box indicates the menu marked in the earlier screenshots):

 

Flyout-NOT.jpg

 

I hope that this demonstrates the concern we have about the flyout UI in both Google Chrome and EdgeChromium.  It is, in my view, significantly more difficult for users to comprehend and to use.

 

But, to keep the ship analogy going a fathom too far, perhaps, I think that the EdgeChromium UI ship has sailed, and EdgeChromium will be using the flyout motif going forward.  We've been discussing this since April, Microsoft doesn't seem to have the issue on a "to-do" list, EdgeChromium is six weeks away from launch, and there is little or no chance that we will see the change.

 

You've mentioned that those us who prefer (or for accessibility reasons, need) a nested list rather than a flyout can switch over by using an extension.  Can you point us to the extension you recommend?

 

The one in your screenshot looks fine (all of the nested folders open to the left) but the one in OP's screenshot looks messy. left, right, left, right etc.
when I see his screenshot, makes me think that the favorites menu in Edge is too big for Google chrome's style but seeing Your screenshot shows that it's fine! confusing lol. probably because of smaller/larger screen sizes?
I don't know how Microsoft can skip this..for now i will say they are busy with more important and fundamental features/missing features but at some point some of the team members should try this new Edge themselves and fix the bugs they see.
I don't know how they are handling feedbacks, they are getting so many and lots of useful feedbacks are being missed. they said last month they got 240,000. who is gonna read all of them one by one and consider them? by now i bet the number is 300,000.

for a simple extension to make bookmarks look like in Edge classic, nested inside each other, try this:
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/simple-bookmarks/nafmgkhgdblkabfjfegmafagpccaobfg

@HotCakeX  "The one in your screenshot looks fine (all of the nested folders open to the left) but the one in OP's screenshot looks messy. left, right, left, right etc."

 

You might want to look at the screenshots I posted again if you think that "all of the nested folders open to the left". Look more closely at each flyout menu: (1) the first flyout menu (Level 2, Subcategory: Technology) opens to the left; (2) the second flyout menu (Level 3, Subcategory: Technology, Linux) also opens to the left; (3) the third flyout menu (Level 4, Subcategory: Technology, Linux, Virtual Machines -- the red boxed active menu) opens to the right, overlaying the first flyout menu.

 

Google Chrome:

Flyout-1.jpg

 

EdgeChromium:

Flyout-2.jpg

 

That happens in both Chrome and EdgeChromium, as the screenshots clearly demonstrate.

 

"[W]hen I see his screenshot, makes me think that the favorites menu in Edge is too big for Google chrome's style but seeing Your screenshot shows that it's fine! confusing lol. probably because of smaller/larger screen sizes?"

 

Screen resolution is a factor. At 1920x1080 resolution (most desktops and 17" laptops), all menus open to the left. At 1366x768 resolution (most laptops below 17"), menus open left/right and overlay each other, as shown in the screenshots.

 

But it is not an issue with "the favorites menu in Edge is too big for Google chrome's style" because the results in Google Chrome and EdgeChromium do exactly the same thing in this respect.

 

"I don't know how they are handling feedbacks, they are getting so many and lots of useful feedbacks are being missed. they said last month they got 240,000. who is gonna read all of them one by one and consider them? by now i bet the number is 300,000."

 

I understand what you are saying, but (a) the way in which EdgeChromium handles Favorites (EdgeChromium flyout versus EdgeClassic nested list) is pretty basic, a fundamental element of the EdgeClassic UI that differentiated EdgeClassic from Google Chrome, and (b) lots and lots of people have been discussing it in this Forum over the last seven months.

 

I suppose that it is possible that the issue was overlooked, but it is hard for me to imagine how.  Anyone opening the Favorites UI would immediately notice the difference.

 

The bottom line, though, is that the complaints about the Chrome-cloned EdgeChromium flyout motif are about usability and functionality, not about "look". The flyout motif has inherent, fundamental flaws in both respects (again, I suggest that you look at the comments to this thread) that strongly suggest to those of us who have been commenting about this for the last seven months, that Microsoft got it right in EdgeClassic, and Google didn't get it right in Chrome.

 

"for a simple extension to make bookmarks look like in Edge classic, nested inside each other, try this"

 

I looked at both "Simple Bookmarks" (the link you posted) and "Neater Bookmarks" (the two nested list Chrome extensions that seem to be most highly regarded) this morning on my test machine. Both work similarly. As workarounds, both are okay, but don't approximate the functionality of the EdgeClassic nested list, which is, after all, integrated into the browser itself.  

 

But if we need an extension to make EdgeChromium work in the way that EdgeClassic works (and it works very well in this respect), then so be it.  Extension it  will be.

Oh right the last one opens to the right, was hard to notice,
i think they need to be scaled down or Microsoft could add animation to the way they are opened so they could be stacked up in front of each other like cards, just my idea. OR use the Edge classic's style :)
in the end, I agree with you that the current favorites menu style in Edge insider needs to change.


@Fredrik Ståhlbrandt 

Good thoughts, well said & very valid, Fred. They don't know what they're missing. IF we can roll other Edge HTML things into OUR Chromium-based browser, such as Add notes & Share or a better tech searching in the address bar and more... surely, we can roll into OURS the better approach to Favs.

Anyway, that's my thought on the matter.

Cheers,
Drew

@tomscharbach 

Tom, Fred,

Since it does seem 99.9999 agree on this, we need to hope & praying the Team hears & acts on it.  Especially, when included are comments from Enterprise customers which, is such major revenue for MS.

BTW, couple of excellent lines in here saying, "Just because it's bad doesn't mean we want to use it plus, WE have a better way"

Cheers,
Drew

@tomscharbach 

"perhaps we should be asking Microsoft to change the default UI everywhere else from nested list UI to flyout UI." Tom

OMG, Tom, NOOooooo! :facepalm:  Thank god you're joking.

Obviously what we are advocating is putting OUR better approach to Chromium Edge, not, putting something bad & disliked all the places we have something good (better), now, already.  Such lack of logic & common sense is laughable.


@tomscharbach 

"Can you point us to the extension", Tom

Tom, not only I didn't recall any such extension(s), before writing this, I just checked both Stores to no avail.

Point is, if it's done right, do not need extensions to make it right... whatever the 'it' is or might be.

Cheers,
Drew

@HotCakeX "i think they need to be scaled down or Microsoft could add animation to the way they are opened so they could be stacked up in front of each other like cards, just my idea. OR use the Edge classic's style :)  in the end, I agree with you that the current favorites menu style in Edge insider needs to change."

 

My preference would be to eliminate flyouts entirely and use the EdgeClassic nested list motif.  The EdgeClassic nested list UI works extremely well, and presents none of the issues that the Chrome-clone flyout UI presents.  Trying to add fixes to the flyout motif is just putting lipstick on the pig, as far as I am concerned.

 

At the risk of boring you (and everyone else) to death, let me expand a bit on how absurd the flyout motif actually is, using exactly the same menu choices I used in my earlier screenshots, but this time using the "Favorites Icon" and going though screen by screen.

 

As background, keep in mind that I am trying to do something very simple -- get to this specific bookmark/favorite as it appears in a nested list (Technology, Linux, Virtual Machine, OSBoxes):

 

Nested Target.jpg

 

Now, keeping that level of simplicity in mind, watch the steps I need to take (and the unholy mess that the flyout menus make of the screen) while I am taking the steps needed to get to that bookmark/favorite.  In each screenshot, the menu outlined in yellow is the menu that opened as a result of the click, that is, the "active menu".

 

Step 1:  Click on the "Favorites Icon"

 

F-1.jpg

 

Step 2:  Click on "Other Favorites"

 

F-2.jpg

 

Step 3:  Click on "Technology"

 

F-3.jpg

 

Step 4:  Click on "Linux"  (Note that the "Linux" menu opens to the right, overlaying menus 1 and 2.)

 

F-4.jpg

 

Step 5:  Click on "Virtual Machines" (Note that this time the menu opens to the left, overlaying menu 3.)

 

F-5a.jpg

 

Finally, after playing Whack-a-Mole with five flyout screens opening on top of one another, I can actually click on the "OS Boxes" link.

 

Look at that last screen.  It is an absolute mess.  Can anyone tell me how I got to that link, just looking at the screenshot?  Or tell me what menus are active and what menus are not without the yellow box outlines I put in?  Or even see what screens are on top of each other?

 

The makework absurdity demonstrated by the screenshots is just the tip of the iceberg of the fundamental, inherent flaws in Chrome's flyout motif.   

 

Others who have commented in this thread have raised a number of serious issues -- like the difficulty of managing bookmarks/favorites in contrast to managing bookmarks/favorites in EdgeClassic's nested list motif, where bookmarks/favorites can be managed right on the list itself, easily and intuitively. 

 

I'm glad those numerous issues were raised, but I focus on two other issues, both related to accessibility:

 

(1) the flyout UI is very difficult to handle by anyone who has an deficiencies in small motor control, because the flyouts are not stable in the way that the nested list in EdgeClassic is stable; and

 

(2) the flyout UI is similarly very difficult (almost impossible, in fact) to use by anyone who has hand tremor issues.

 

I am acutely aware of accessibility issues because I am getting up in years and I have friends who have those issues.   Not everyone is fully abled and not everyone is young with acute vision, steady hands and excellent small motor control.  Just about everywhere else in Windows 10, Microsoft has paid careful attention to accessibility.  But not in the bookmarks/favorites UI. 

 

What is wrong with this?  What's wrong is that bookmarks/favorites are a core component of using a browser productively, and setting a default UI that is not accessible to users with minor disabilities makes the browser less useful than it might otherwise be.

 

Anyway, I think I've said everything I have to say on this issue.  A lot of us have been after Microsoft for seven months now, for a variety of valid and well-stated reasons, and it is clear that Microsoft is going to Chrome-clone the bookmarks/favorites UI nonetheless.  It is a shame.

 

 

@tomscharbach 

"But if we need an extension to make EdgeChromium work in the way that EdgeClassic works (and it works very well in this respect), then so be it.  Extension it  will be", Tom

I suppose. Though, I repeat, since we, actually, can make lots of Edge style things work on Chromium... I, personally, have a hard time believing we can't make OUR better approach to this work on Chromium, without extensions necessary.

Cheers,
Drew


@Drew1903 wrote:

Good thoughts, well said & very valid, Fred. They don't know what they're missing. IF we can roll other Edge HTML things into OUR Chromium-based browser, such as Add notes & Share or a better tech searching in the address bar and more... surely, we can roll into OURS the better approach to Favs.

Share is already available, add notes is being worked on but what is tech searching?

Spoiler

@Drew1903 wrote:

BTW, couple of excellent lines in here saying, "Just because it's bad doesn't mean we want to use it"

that line doesn't seem right..i think you should replace word "bad" with "good" "

Spoiler
@Drew1903 wrote:

"perhaps we should be asking Microsoft to change the default UI everywhere else from nested list UI to flyout UI." Tom
Obviously what we are advocating is putting OUR better approach to Chromium Edge, not, putting something bad & disliked all the places we have something good (better), now, already.  Such lack of logic & common sense is laughable.

whoever that last sentence is pointed at, it's rude.

shouldn't insult someone for the way they think.

 

something bad and disliked all the places? that's not what everyone thinks, we're only a few people in this forum, very limited user opinion.

 

Spoiler
@Drew1903@Drew1903 wrote:


not only I didn't recall any such extension(s), before writing this, I just checked both Stores to no avail.

 

 

I put the link in my post above

here again: 

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/simple-bookmarks/nafmgkhgdblkabfjfegmafagpccaobfg

there are lots of bookmark manager extensions on the Chrome web store.

 

 

 

Spoiler
@Drew1903 wrote:

I suppose. Though, I repeat, since we, actually, can make lots of Edge style things work on Chromium... I, personally, have a hard time believing we can't make our better approach to this work on Chromium, without extensions necessary.

 

Can we? it seems like it's not that easy for the devs to ship exactly the same Edge classic features to the new Edge, they need to rewrite everything to be compatible with the new engines

 

Spoiler
@tomscharbach wrote:

My preference would be to eliminate flyouts entirely and use the EdgeClassic nested list motif.  The EdgeClassic nested list UI works extremely well, and presents none of the issues that the Chrome-clone flyout UI presents.  Trying to add fixes to the flyout motif is just putting lipstick on the pig, as far as I am concerned.

 

At the risk of boring you (and everyone else) to death, let me expand a bit on how absurd the flyout motif actually is, using exactly the same menu choices I used in my earlier screenshots, but this time using the "Favorites Icon" and going though screen by screen.

 

As background, keep in mind that I am trying to do something very simple -- get to this specific bookmark/favorite as it appears in a nested list (Technology, Linux, Virtual Machine, OSBoxes):

 

Nested Target.jpg

 

Now, keeping that level of simplicity in mind, watch the steps I need to take (and the unholy mess that the flyout menus make of the screen) while I am taking the steps needed to get to that bookmark/favorite.  In each screenshot, the menu outlined in yellow is the menu that opened as a result of the click, that is, the "active menu".

 

Step 1:  Click on the "Favorites Icon"

 

F-1.jpg

 

Step 2:  Click on "Other Favorites"

 

F-2.jpg

 

Step 3:  Click on "Technology"

 

F-3.jpg

 

Step 4:  Click on "Linux"  (Note that the "Linux" menu opens to the right, overlaying menus 1 and 2.)

 

F-4.jpg

 

Step 5:  Click on "Virtual Machines" (Note that this time the menu opens to the left, overlaying menu 3.)

 

F-5.jpg

 

Finally, I can actually click on the "OS Boxes" link.

 

But look at that last screen.  It is an absolute mess.  Can anyone tell me how I got that link, just looking at the screenshot?  Or tell me what menus are active and what menus are not without the yellow box outlines I put in?

 

The makework absurdity demonstrated by the screenshots is just the tip of the iceberg of the fundamental, inherent flaws in Chrome's flyout motif.   

 

Others who have commented in this thread have raised a number of serious issues -- like the difficulty of managing bookmarks/favorites in contrast to managing bookmarks/favorites in EdgeClassic's nested list motif, where bookmarks/favorites can be managed right on the list itself, easily and intuitively.  I'm glad those numerous issues were raised, but I focus on two other issues, both related to accessibility:

 

(1) the flyout UI is very difficult to handle by anyone who has an deficiencies in small motor control, because the flyouts are not stable in the way that the nested list in EdgeClassic is stable; and

 

(2) the flyout UI is similarly very difficult (almost impossible, in fact) to use by anyone who has hand tremor issues.

 

I am acutely aware of those issues because I am getting up in years and I have friends who have those issues.   Not everyone is fully abled and not everyone is young.  Just about everywhere else in Windows 10, Microsoft has paid careful attention to accessibility.  But not in the bookmarks/favorites UI.

 

Anyway, I think I've said everything I have to say on this issue.  A lot of us have been after Microsoft for seven months now, and it is clear that Microsoft is going to Chrome-clone the bookmarks/favorites UI.  It is a shame.

Yeah I started agreeing with you since my last post because I also saw the real issue with flyout menus.

it's good that they are simple but the problem is they are too simple and things like nested bookmarks can be a challenge for that style. (i don't know if anything else other than nested bookmarks can be challenging?)

 

@HotCakeX "Yeah I started agreeing with you since my last post because I also saw the real issue with flyout menus. [I]t's good that they are simple but the problem is they are too simple and things like nested bookmarks can be a challenge for that style."

 

I don't understand why multiple flyout menus (Google Chrome and EdgeChromium) are simpler than a static nested list (EdgeClassic and Firefox), but I'd be interested in understanding more, if you are willing to expand on this thought. I'm also curious about whether there are advantages other than simplicity to a flyout UI over a nested list UI, if you have thoughts on that question. It seems to me that both flyout and nested list motifs depend on hierarchical organization (if the user is going to bother to organize at all), and differ only in the way in which the hierarchy is presented (flyout versus nested list).

 

"(i don't know if anything else other than nested bookmarks can be challenging?)"

 

Obviously, there is the accessibility issue I've been discussing, although that issue does not affect people with acute vision, steady hands and excellent small motor control. Whether or not accessibility is an issue worth noting depends, I guess, on your perspective, and there are several excellent alternative browsers that are more fully accessible than either Chrome or EdgeChromium.

 

There are also a few additional issues that have been mentioned in this thread, as you know:

 

(1) The Google/Microsoft implementation does not allow users to "pin open" the favorites/bookmarks flyout menus, but instead requires users to redo the open-flyout menus for each new favorite/bookmark, making it impossible to launch several favorites/bookmarks in rapid succession.

 

(2) Favorites/bookmarks cannot be managed directly in the favorites/boomarks menus, but instead users need to open a separate "Manage Favorites" tab in order to manage favorites/bookmarks.

 

(3) The slightest misstep in handling the flyout menus (for example, clicking outside the active menu) causes the flyout to collapse in whole or in part, requiring a redo.

 

The issues mentioned in this thread are not a complete list, of course. It might be helpful for you to go back and take a look at earlier related threads if you want a fuller understanding of what the issues are.

 

Microsoft's implementation of the flyout motif presents an additional issue, though, because there are two access points, each with a different structure and each which behaves slightly differently.

 

The first access point is through the Chrome-cloned favorites/bookmarks structure, which deploys a "Favorites Bar" that, in default mode, allows a user to pin links/folders to the bar and has an "Other Favorites" folder at the far right, a folder holding all bookmarks/favorites not pinned to the "Favorites Bar". When "Other Favorites" are opened, it takes the user into the flyout menus.

 

MenuStructure-0.jpg

 

The second access point is through EdgeChromium's "Favorites Icon", which opens a dropdown menu replicating the "Favorites Bar" content, and then, when "Other Favorites" is opened from the very bottom of the list, takes a user into the flyout menus.

 

MenuStructure-1.jpg

 

I suspect that Microsoft intends for users to use one or the other, but for users who are used to pinning links to a "Favorites Bar", the dual structure is redundant and potentially confusing.

 

I went back and looked at the threads in which Insiders encouraged Microsoft to bring over the "Favorites Icon" from EdgeClassic to EdgeChromium.

 

What strikes me, in rereading those threads, is that the "Favorites Icon" request was linked with a request that Microsoft also bring over EdgeClassic's nested list UI. The idea, in short, was to replicate EdgeClassic's favorites environment and UI.

 

Microsoft elected, instead, to bring over the "Favorites Icon" access point but use it to replicate Google Chrome's flyout favorites/bookmarks organization.

 

That strikes me as an odd choice, but it seems to me that there is a potential "win-win" to be had because of the dual access point structure of EdgeChromium:

 

First, do what Insiders asked for in the first place, and tie the "Favorites Icon" to the nested list UI that EdgeClassic now uses.

 

Second, allow users to select one or the other UI (that is, EdgeClassic nested list or Google Chrome flyout) during setup, and eliminate whichever method is not chosen from the browser UI.

 

That would seem to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak, because Google Chrome users could have the UI that is familiar to them, and EdgeClassic users could have the UI that is familiar to them.

 

It seems to me that might be a good solution, because if EdgeChromium is going to get any traction at all, it will have to win over Google Chrome users, but it makes little or no sense to alienate EdgeClassic users while trying to do so.

 

In terms of market strategy, it seems to me, it would be a good idea is to build on the existing EdgeClassic user base while bringing over converts from Google Chrome, rather than abandon the existing EdgeClassic user base and hope that it won't make a difference.

 

I will be curious to see what happens with the EdgeClassic user base when EdgeChromium is released.  The changed Favorites UI will be immediately apparent.  It might to turn out to be a problem, or it might not. 

@tomscharbach 

Spoiler

@tomscharbach wrote:

@HotCakeX "Yeah I started agreeing with you since my last post because I also saw the real issue with flyout menus. [I]t's good that they are simple but the problem is they are too simple and things like nested bookmarks can be a challenge for that style."

 

I don't understand why multiple flyout menus (Google Chrome and EdgeChromium) are simpler than a static nested list (EdgeClassic and Firefox), but I'd be interested in understanding more, if you are willing to expand on this thought. I'm also curious about whether there are advantages other than simplicity to a flyout UI over a nested list UI, if you have thoughts on that question. It seems to me that both flyout and nested list motifs depend on hierarchical organization (if the user is going to bother to organize at all), and differ only in the way in which the hierarchy is presented (flyout versus nested list).

 

"(i don't know if anything else other than nested bookmarks can be challenging?)"

 

Obviously, there is the accessibility issue I've been discussing, although that issue does not affect people with acute vision, steady hands and excellent small motor control. Whether or not accessibility is an issue worth noting depends, I guess, on your perspective, and there are several excellent alternative browsers that are more fully accessible than either Chrome or EdgeChromium.

 

There are also a few additional issues that have been mentioned in this thread, as you know:

 

(1) The Google/Microsoft implementation does not allow users to "pin open" the favorites/bookmarks flyout menus, but instead requires users to redo the open-flyout menus for each new favorite/bookmark, making it impossible to launch several favorites/bookmarks in rapid succession.

 

(2) Favorites/bookmarks cannot be managed directly in the favorites/boomarks menus, but instead users need to open a separate "Manage Favorites" tab in order to manage favorites/bookmarks.

 

(3) The slightest misstep in handling the flyout menus (for example, clicking outside the active menu) causes the flyout to collapse in whole or in part, requiring a redo.

 

The issues mentioned in this thread are not a complete list, of course. It might be helpful for you to go back and take a look at earlier related threads if you want a fuller understanding of what the issues are.

 

Microsoft's implementation of the flyout motif presents an additional issue, though, because there are two access points, each with a different structure and each which behaves slightly differently.

 

The first access point is through the Chrome-cloned favorites/bookmarks structure, which deploys a "Favorites Bar" that, in default mode, allows a user to pin links/folders to the bar and has an "Other Favorites" folder at the far right, a folder holding all bookmarks/favorites not pinned to the "Favorites Bar". When "Other Favorites" are opened, it takes the user into the flyout menus.

 

MenuStructure-0.jpg

 

The second access point is through EdgeChromium's "Favorites Icon", which opens a dropdown menu replicating the "Favorites Bar" content, and then, when "Other Favorites" is opened from the very bottom of the list, takes a user into the flyout menus.

 

MenuStructure-1.jpg

 

I suspect that Microsoft intends for users to use one or the other, but for users who are used to pinning links to a "Favorites Bar", the dual structure is redundant and potentially confusing.

 

I went back and looked at the threads in which Insiders encouraged Microsoft to bring over the "Favorites Icon" from EdgeClassic to EdgeChromium.

 

What strikes me, in rereading those threads, is that the "Favorites Icon" request was linked with a request that Microsoft also bring over EdgeClassic's nested list UI. The idea, in short, was to replicate EdgeClassic's favorites environment and UI.

 

Microsoft elected, instead, to bring over the "Favorites Icon" access point but use it to replicate Google Chrome's flyout favorites/bookmarks organization.

 

That strikes me as an odd choice, but it seems to me that there is a potential "win-win" to be had because of the dual access point structure of EdgeChromium:

 

First, do what Insiders asked for in the first place, and tie the "Favorites Icon" to the nested list UI that EdgeClassic now uses.

 

Second, allow users to select one or the other UI (that is, EdgeClassic nested list or Google Chrome flyout) during setup, and eliminate whichever method is not chosen from the browser UI.

 

That would seem to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak, because Google Chrome users could have the UI that is familiar to them, and EdgeClassic users could have the UI that is familiar to them.

 

It seems to me that might be a good solution, because if EdgeChromium is going to get any traction at all, it will have to win over Google Chrome users, but it makes little or no sense to alienate EdgeClassic users while trying to do so.

 

In terms of market strategy, it seems to me, it would be a good idea is to build on the existing EdgeClassic user base while bringing over converts from Google Chrome, rather than abandon the existing EdgeClassic user base and hope that it won't make a difference.

 

I will be curious to see what happens with the EdgeClassic user base when EdgeChromium is released.  The changed Favorites UI will be immediately apparent.  It might to turn out to be a problem, or it might not. 


Alright our thoughts are now aligned on this, you changed my mind :)

my only concern is not to make the favorite menu's sidebar like the Collection's side bar. it pushes the web contents to the left, In Edge classic the favorites sidebar is an overlay on web contents, doesn't change the elements of websites or force them to resize.