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SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

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Kerem Yuceturk
Microsoft

SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

We are continuing with the rollout of the modern lists feature. Last week we had rolled it out to all of First Release Users. This week, we will take the next step and go to 10% of users in First Release Tenants. All of these users should also see the PowerApps and Flow buttons in the command bar. Expect this rollout to hit your users within this week!

 

The step after this will be to go to 50% and then 100% of users in First Release Tenants, expected over the next two to three weeks. We will make a new post to announce these next steps.

 

As I mentioned in my previous post, please note that modern lists, just like modern document libraries, may detect some incompatible features and fall back to the classic SharePoint view for some of your lists. Take a look at this article for the known cases where we fall back to classic, and this article for getting your bearings around modern lists.

 

Please see the previous post for details about our announcement of modern lists:

https://network.office.com/t5/Blogs/Modern-SharePoint-lists-are-here-Including-integration-with/bc-p...

 

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  • SharePoint Online
43 Replies

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Thanks for the update, especially the link that shows what features are only available in Classic view.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Hi @Kerem Yuceturk, we are now seeing Modern Lists in our First Release tenant that we use for testing new services.  We have concerns around the inclusion of the Flow and PowerApps buttons - can this be removed using an admin control?

 

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

I'm trying to give power apps a try from the new lists but whenever I click to Edit in Powerapps I get a security certificate warning. Any ideas?

 

I'm also interested in whether I can remove the PowerApps and Flow options, at least for some lists. Are these options linked to the manage lists permission or site collection admininstrator level?

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

I don't think you can remove both actions from the new list UX (at least currently)...have you tried both actions in different browsers? In one of my tenants with IE, I'm not having problems using both Flow or PowerApps actions

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

It might be a problem at our end, thanks for confirming its not a global issue.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

There are interesting things going on in regards to Flow and PowerApps and I'd like to share some of my notes, and look for validation. 

 

1- Flow: I found out that It is fairly easy to control access to Flow. If a user doesn't have the license for 'Flow and PowerApps', s/he can not access to Flow. User will be prompted with a warning that says "The user with object identifier 'SOMEGUID' in tenant 'SOMEGUID' does not have an entitlement to use Power Apps". Licensing give some level of control to usage of Flow, and user can not continue to design surface. Note: Error message probably needs to be cleaned up a bit for clarity. GUIDs scare regular users.

 

2- PowerApps: This is where things get a little interesting. If a user without a license clicks on Power Apps, s/he gets a bit less gracious error message initially. "Error creating app from data. There was a problem saving your PowerApp to the cloud. Please try again." I am not sure if that initial error message is consistent behavior or it happened once.

 

However, after clicking CLOSE to this warning, user is presented with the PowerApps design surface and everything continued to function normally. This was a big wow moment for me.

 

Continuing my tests, I found out that without a Flow & PowerApps license user was able to create a Power App, save and publish it, and later make it public for other users. Please keep in mind, that test user had only "member" level permissions on the site collection, nothing else.

 

This is the part that's very concerning when you consider a big tenant with thousands of users. If users start building Power Apps that at some point their businesses depend on it (similar to workflows, and workflow solutions) - all of a sudden you can guess the challenge thrown at an IT organization to support these PowerApp solutions created, without any visibility to them. You can see how things will get really hectic, rapidly.

 

I believe in order to build sustainable solutions, IT organizations need to have some level of control to pace new functions introduced in SharePoint Online to their user base. We have to keep in mind that, although these are fantastic tools to empower users, without proper training and guides, all we are doing is creating an havoc on support teams. We have over and over again proven that providing regular users any level of somewhat complex tool without proper training guide, support expactions and general governance policy, is like handing a kid a loaded gun. It simply isn't good, and no good outcome can be expected out of it.  I believe these new tools (Flow and PowerApps) need proper exposure controls to help IT organizations define the governance framework around them.

 

If there are controls and I wasn't able to figure them out, I'd like to get more information regarding to them, so that I can plan and pace the exposure by defining a proper governance framework before things get out of control.

 

PS: I had some difficulty using Chrome as a browser accessing PowerApps, button were not visible. IE functioned properly.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

I work for a fairly large org so having no overall visibility of what PowerApps/Flows people are creating is very concerning as if they experience problems it's muggins here who will have to look into it. Member access to me is list content editor level. I wouldnt expect a member to create/update lists so why would they be able to create PowerApps? Very odd behaviour.

 

Powerapps bypassing the license sounds like a bug so hopefully it will be fixed?

 

One question, if a user doesn't have the license then why are they able to see the buttons at all?

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Thanks @Ali Salih for yoru detailed assessment and sharing here.  The findings and conclusions you draw, are exactly what concenrs us today.  Particualrly froma  complaince perspective and the need to be in control of our data, we will not be able to proceed as this is presented in First Release.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Yes, in my testing the buttons were available and the account I was using was not licensed for these services.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Are you sure we cannot remove the PowerApps and Flow options for lists ? It will be a big deal for us if this cannot be removed. 

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Hi @Clifford Kennedy. we have heard this feedback from other customers too, and we are implementing a change that will tie these buttons to the "Preview Features" switch found in SharePoint tenant admin. This should be there before the end of the month, if not sooner. So you will soon be able to switch the "Preview Features" off, and remove the buttons from modern lists ui. This shuold be there before this feature is released broadly to Prod.

 

In the future, we are planning to govern these via a policy page that governs data access to SharePoint that we are building.

 

Hope this helps!

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Hi @Sian Busby, sorry to hear about the error. We did have an issue with the Edit button that we are fixing this week. In the meanwhile, you should be able to go to https://web.powerapps.com and find and edit all of your apps there.

 

Also, let me repeat my earlier answer about the button availability: We have heard the feedback about hiding the buttons from other customers too, and we are implementing a change that will tie these buttons to the "Preview Features" switch found in SharePoint tenant admin. This should be there before the end of the month, if not sooner. So you will soon be able to switch the "Preview Features" off, and remove the buttons from modern lists ui.

 

In the future, we are planning to govern these via a policy page that governs data access to SharePoint that we are building.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Hi @Ali Salih, thank you for the detailed post. It is indeed strange that removing the license doesn't change the behavior for PowerApps, I am raising this issue with our friends there.

 

We hear your feedback on the governance story for PowerApps, and they are working on a solid story here before they go to General Availability (expected later this year).

 

Also please see my response above re: being able to hide the buttons.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Thanks @Kerem Yuceturk - I got a simialr message from the product group overnight, so that will indeed help us in our efforts to remain compliant.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

So we are now seeing the Modern Lists in our Tenent however the one issue we seem to be having is that our content types are not playing well with the new views.  Specifically when creating or editing items in a list with the Content Type added some of the fields are missing and those fields are needed.  Has anyone else seen this experience?  We can always switch back to classic view but would prefer not to as we try to provide our users with the most modern experience but this is severely affecting our users ability to add new items to lists.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Hi @Christopher King, this is unexpected. The new item experience should let you pick the content type you want to start with and show you the fields in the new form that are appropirate for that content type, just like classic. And for edit, the content type picker should allow you to switch the form to show the appropriate fields as well. We also check all the types for a content type and if we find any that the modern UI can't display properly, we fall back to classic automatically.

 

Could you share here, (or privately if you prefer), what types the fields that are missing are? And their settings if you don't mind. There may be an issue that we have not caught in our testing.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Kerem,

     I replied to your private message you sent with the information.  Any help would be appreciated.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Thank you. For the benefit of the rest of the audience, we are now investigating a fix for the issue where Publishing HTML fields are not showing up in the new/edit/display forms used by modern lists. We will hold off on expanding the audience for modern lists until the issue is resolved. At the moment the workaround is to go back to classic. We expect to solve this issue within a week.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Hi,

 

We have custom actions in place that register script blocks and even though auto-detect should fall back to classic lists we still see modern UI for site contents and when adding/editing a list item. Viewing the list itself is in classic, though. This makes for quite a disjointed experience as the user goes through the following flow:

 

Publishing (custom, branded experience)

Site Contents (new modern UI)

List (custom, branded)

Add/Edit list item (new modern UI)

 

Should all administrative pages go back to classic mode if there are any custom actions registered?

 

Thanks!

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

I think you should simply disable new experience until Microsoft adds support to script blocks

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

The issue is that for consultants with many clients we do not always have the control to force all tenants into classic mode. Users are going to start seeing the modern UI regardless. If the intention is to detect customizations and not serve up the modern UI (as it has been communicated by MS and it seems to do properly in some areas) then it needs to be consistent. I don't think custom script blocks are coming to the modern UI any time soon and I think when they do they will not be a carryover of custom actions b/c trying to streamline old/new customizations would be an absolute nightmare.

Solution

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

You can disable completely the new UI using PowerShell...see this: https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Switch-the-default-experience-for-lists-or-document-librari...

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Hi @Mark Bice, agreed that this is not an optimal experience for the scenario that you describe. For these situations, we propose that you use the workaround that @Juan Carlos González Martín mentioned, and disable the modern ui for the entire site using PowerShell.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

I understand how to disable it, that's easy enough.. My question was more around whether or not this was expected behaviour even though there are custom actions registered (the article you link to says custom actions should automatically force pages into classic). If it's a bug that is known and will be resolved soon, great. If it's not considered a bug and it's expected to have certain pages go to modern UI even with customizations then we need to know which areas are affected and then effectively communicate that to our end users (we don't control many of the tenants in which we have customized so it's an exercise of communicating the experience back to each and every tenant admin so they can disable the modern UI if they choose).

 

Thanks

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Right on. Yes, this is the expected design. We run fallback in the context of the list that you are dealing with, and only fall back to classic if we know that we can't support a customization using modern ux. The idea was that if you don't have a lot of customizations, most things work in modern, and that one page/form that has the customizations can still run in classic. I agree it's not a great design when you have a lot of different parts going back and forth between modern and classic. We don't have a solution for that at the moment other than forcing the site to use all classic. So if this kind of behavior is common in sites with your solutions, then I agree it might be best to communicate to customers to run that PowerShell for the sites that use your solutions.

As we improve our customization story for modern UI using SharePoint framework, hopefully these will be reduced to nil, but in the meanwhile, we will have this side by side experience.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Hi,
I just wanted to chime in and add, that the new Listitem Edit UI wrongly shows the Attachments Field, even though I specifically disabled attachments in the list settings.
When you try to add an attachment you get this error: Encountering issue when uploading attachment ACV_Skype Features.pdf : The list item was saved, but attachments could not be saved because the attachments feature is currently unavailable for this list.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

My 2 cents on this is that the update properties on the view option cannot be disabled which means bypassing any form logic we use.

 

Allow items in this list to be edited using Quick Edit set to No in Advanced settings doesn't affect this.

Allow individual item checkboxes set to No in the view settings doesnt affect this.

 

I need to know if this will be something we can disable (or if the option will be available before this goes live to all) as if this isn't possible then I'll need to rethink using SharePoint and look into other options.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

@Ali Salih I am experiencing this same problem, but I'm not seeing anywhere to assign a PowerApps and Flow license. Can you tell me where that is hiding?

Thanks 

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Hi @Dean Gross - By the time I wrote that reply, it was an option under Active Users -> {Username} -> Product licenses. Now, I can not see it there either. So I am not sure. 

 

@Kerem Yuceturk - Any updates on this ?

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Thanks, i will do some more research. I have found that if i go to the MS Flow site, i could login in with my account and now it seems to be working. Not exactly smooth, but at least now I can do some work with my client.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Yes...this is something I have also experienced in one of my tenants:
- I have PowerApps and Flow as licenses I could assign to tenant users, but at some time they disappeared.
- But I enter in the Flow or PowerApps page and Sign In I can see my Flows and my PowerApps and create new ones.

Well, both products are still in preview ...

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Correct, while in preview Flow and PowerApps are free to use for anyone. Once we reach general availability, Flow will remain completely open and free for limited usage, and both Flow and PowerApps will be included for free in almost all Office SKU's. That means that you can always depend on the fact that anyone who has access to SharePoint (or otherwise) will have access to Flow and PowerApps.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

@Stephen Siciliano Will there be certain controls available to Global or SPO admins so that they can enforce some level of governance policies around the use of these products?  In other words, If organizationally I am not ready to support end-user created Flows or PowerApps, what can I do to stop users creating these ?

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

 

 

@Stephen Siciliano I want to ask the same question, We want to stop end user to create Flows and PowerApps. If we turn off license for PowerApps and Flows in Admin center does it solve our problem.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

The preview Flow and PowerApps are free, public services that anyone can sign up with whatever account they would like, so licenses don't mean anything for those products. This is the same way that Power BI works today, for example.

 

If you want to disable users from using the free services from Microsoft you can disable ad-hoc subscriptions:

 

To disable automatic license distribution for existing users: Set-MsolCompanySettings -AllowAdHocSubscriptions $false

 

You can read more here: https://support.office.com/en-us/article/Power-BI-in-your-organization-d7941332-8aec-4e5e-87e8-92073...

 

Note that this will disable the user signing up for anything for free, such as Power BI, Microsoft Stream, Azure RMS etc...

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Thanks for the response @Stephen Siciliano -  I am not concerned about the Preview phases of these products.

 

I am more concerned when these go GA. Will I have any control besides this PowerShell cmdlet? Is the PowerShell cmdlet to disable Adhoc subscriptions still work for generally available products? Those are the answers I am seeking.  Also it seems like this cmdlet either stops or starts ALL adhoc products at once. I think this all or none approach is rather against the adoption process of such products. Less than ideal method here..

 

I want to be able to control when new products enter my environment (when they are in GA).  It is less than ideal when new productivity tools are available to end users without setting any expectations from supportability perspective.  In an example; If my end users build Flows/PowerApps that business processes depend on it, and as IT organization I am not ready to support it, this would be a very big problem when an issue comes up. Hence, I'm seeking some control of the roll out of these products.

 

We are very glad that Microsoft teams are working on providing new tools in Office 365 at rapid pace, however, pace of change is rather too fast especially for larger organizations. These types of organizations seek options to throttle the pace so that they have controlled chaos. My 2cents.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Hello Ali -

 

What's coming at GA is full control over the usage of Flow and PowerApps inside of your organization. You will be able to manage the enviornments that users create content in, as well as the services that those Flows and PowerApps use. For example, you can block the transfer of data from SharePoint to Twitter, etc.... To the best of my knowledge, we don't have a blanket master switch to disable ALL aspects of PowerApps and Flow. Instead, our focus is to give IT visibility and control over HOW Flow and PowerApps are used, not to disable it. 

 

-Stephen

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Thanks! Seems like a good first step.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Will existing apps / lists such as Tasks and Issues Tracker also assume the new SharePoint Modern lists view? At the moment, they revert to the classic view.

 

I'm in the process of defining a "Risks Tracker" list across new Project-oriented team site templates, but I'm concerned as to whether or not they will assume the new modern list format (which is what I'd like).  In fact, I wasn't sure whether I should use a custom list, tasks list, Issues tracking list or perhaps even take a completely different route and use Planner for such a purpose.  Exciting (and confusing) times ahead. Thanks.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Hi @Frank Bastone, not at this time. Currently the modern view is limited only to custom lists and document libraries. We will be expanding the modern view to those in the new year. We need to add some modern controls to our arsenal to be able to properly support those.

 

If you are using an Office 365 Group, then Planner should be a good fit, but if you want to embed tasks into SharePoint going with a regular task list is the better tool at the moment. Agree that this part of the product is ripe for updates, hopefully we will have some goodness in 2017.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Thanks for noting that. I can only get a Custom List to use the Modern UI. I feel like an idiot, dutifully checking for the past three months to see if my existing Task or Calendars "lit up" the Modern setting. All this time I wish I had know it was just the custom lists.

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants

Re: SharePoint Modern Lists - going to 10% of First Release tenants


Frank Bastone wrote:

Will existing apps / lists such as Tasks and Issues Tracker also assume the new SharePoint Modern lists view? At the moment, they revert to the classic view.

 

I'm in the process of defining a "Risks Tracker" list across new Project-oriented team site templates, but I'm concerned as to whether or not they will assume the new modern list format (which is what I'd like).  In fact, I wasn't sure whether I should use a custom list, tasks list, Issues tracking list or perhaps even take a completely different route and use Planner for such a purpose.  Exciting (and confusing) times ahead. Thanks.


 

This has been driving me bananas.

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