10-26-2017 09:31 PM
10-26-2017 09:31 PM
PowerApps and Flow are becoming a more integral part of SharePoint Online with the imminent release of Custom Forms with PowerApps and the Flow Launch Panel. Starting in November, these features will no longer be considered as preview features.
If you have the Preview Features switch turned off in SharePoint administration center today, you were not seeing the Flow and PowerApps buttons in modern lists and libraries. Once this change goes into effect, the buttons will become available, regardless of the setting: Flow button in modern libraries, and both Flow and PowerApps buttons in modern lists.
The change will start with our First Release tenants, and then move forward into the rest of the production in two waves. We hope to complete the change over the month of November.
PowerApps and Flow are still working on completing their certification for government and sovereign cloud environments with stricter compliance requirements, and the buttons will continue to remain invisible for these environments, independent of the preview features switch setting.
11-02-2017 03:38 AM - edited 11-02-2017 09:43 AM
This is all good news, but for organisations that are not yet ready to roll this feature out to end users, there needs to be a way to hide these buttons on tenant or site collection level.
For anyone of the same opinion, please vote up this user voice item to make Microsoft understand the importance allowing their customers to roll out new features in their own pace.
11-02-2017 12:08 PM
Hi @Pontus T, we are starting to take big dependencies on Flow and PowerApps: Custom Forms in the PowerApps case, and out of box review/approval flows for lists and libraries on the Flow side. So having these features off is not something we want to encourage to keep the product consistent for our users.
We do appreciate the feedback, and will be watching the discussion under the user voice item to be sure.
11-02-2017 04:15 PM
Does PowerApps and Flow button appears even though user do not have PowerApps\Flows license enabled in our tenant?
11-03-2017 01:14 AM
11-03-2017 04:58 AM
"So having these features off is not something we want to encourage to keep the product consistent for our users"
This is all well & good, but things shouldn't be released & out of preview without the supporting administrative controls to restrict visibility/usage, until our Organisations are ready to do so, in line with our internal & very specific strategies.
As a result, our 35k strong userbase will have ability to use tools they are not familiar with, without the correct guidance or best practices, subsequently causing large increases in resources in correcting user errors or addressing design duplications from separate users.
We appreciate Microsoft have their own Change Management processes, which are adhered to with preview features then full release gradually over time; there needs to be an understanding that individual business, organisations & specific users within those may have their own Change Management & access policies that are being hindered by Microsoft's lack of understanding for administrative needs.
11-03-2017 06:32 AM - edited 11-05-2017 06:14 AM
Hi @Kerem Yuceturk, thank you for your reply. I see your point but it is simply not rational thinking from Microsoft's side. As much as you want to empower users to get started with these great features, trust me that we as admins are of the same opinion, I really cannot see why it would not be in Microsoft's best interest to also allow your customers to roll them out with the best possible results.
Multiple issues occur when end users get access to these tools with no training or applied governance. This just needs planning to remain secure, stable and successful. Just take @Craig White's tenant size, and consider all the concerns around data governance when users can hook up their flow to a Twitter connector and send business sensitive data out in cyber space (#confidential). I know this can be controlled but users also needs to be informed and trained. Not to mention the internal support needed to back up the adoption of these tools.
So I simply don't buy it. There are already many features and apps that can be controlled from central admin, which is extremely helpful (and essential) to organisations that needs to follow certain internal and external rules and regulations for their environment.
Please consider this. We want to give our users all the new tools, but please leave us to option of controlling how and when this done. We do not want to revert back to classic UI to avoid this.
11-03-2017 07:41 AM
@Jaymin Patel, when the user clicks on the ribbon icon for PowerApps/Flow, it should open a separate browser tab for the app in question. Once the user logs in with their standard O365 credentials, it will AUTOMATICALLY grant them a free licence.
We just tested this with a dummy account & saw the change instantly in the licencing part of the O365 admin centre for the associated account. Again this is a worry if licences are automatically being applied to users without correct governance applied "on the ground"
11-03-2017 08:12 AM
To add further to my points raised above, a generic end user with a free licence also has access to the 'Admin Centre' option within the Flow/PowerApps browsers, so can not only create apps but also provision new PowerApps environments without prior governance or approval.
An Admin Centre should only be accessible by O365 administrators. Why is this not so?
11-03-2017 08:43 AM
Thanks Craig for your reply. It is really bummer!! Most of user base is not tech savvy. We do not want to expose them to PowerApps and Flows until we train them and they are ready. Apart from this, If license is automatically assigned to the user (without Admin's knowledge) then it defeat the purpose of governance.
@Kerem Yuceturk - How is Microsoft going to solve a problem when we do not want our user to see "PowerApps" and "Flows" button on Modern forms.
11-03-2017 09:06 AM - edited 11-03-2017 09:12 AM
It's unbelievable that MS won't empower their customers to control their environment. It's irresponsible - no thought given to training or security concerns; other initiatives that may be a high value priority to the business. It puts teams supporting Office 365 in a reactive position and doesn't set them up for success. I'm sending the user voice link to people in my company to vote.
11-03-2017 09:10 AM
11-06-2017 09:49 AM
11-06-2017 11:25 AM
Has the "Create Flow on Selected Item" trigger been completed in Flow? That was one that seemed to be a work in progress several weeks ago.
11-07-2017 03:25 PM
Thank you all very much for the thoughtful feedback you have provided. I wanted to clarify a few things.
When we first added the PowerApps and Flow buttons to modern lists back in the second half of 2016, these products were still in preview. They have since moved to general availability and completed their certification processes earlier this year to certify that they are in compliance with the standards expected from workloads in Office 365. Microsoft Trust Center has detailed information about the current level of compliance for PowerApps and Flow. We would not be removing them from under the preview features switch if this were not the case. You should not have anything to worry about on the compliance front. We actually have a few customers who have been asking for this change knowing that PowerApps and Flow are now within the compliance boundary. The only exception to this is government cloud and sovereign cloud instances in Germany and China, where the buttons will remain off while PowerApps and Flow work on adding support for these environments.
Features like “Custom forms using PowerApps”, “Flow launch panel” and “Out of box review/approval flow” are set to become major features for SharePoint Online. We hear our customers desire to be able to control each new feature of SharePoint and turn it on or off on your own terms, but the permutations of different features and their interactions with each other makes the maintainability and support of our product prohibitively difficult, and moves us away from viewing SharePoint as a coherent whole, rather than a collection of independent features. So we want to avoid providing a switch for each feature even though this does provide our customers with peace of mind. We are trying to make new features as easy to learn as possible and to provide in box tutorials and guides where it makes sense to help end users succeed, and to also reduce the burden on you for creating comprehensive documentation and training. We acknowledge that we have more work to do here but our designer and UX writers are spending more effort here.
PowerApps and Flow both have admin centers that allow O365 admins to go in and see all of the apps and flows in the tenant, as well as take them over as needed when users leave an organization, or under other circumstances. They also allow you to set policies to prevent mixing SharePoint data with other connectors if you need to do that, and let admins download the list of active users who use these tools in their organizations. We also just announced that activities from Flow are also available in the O365 security and compliance center: https://flow.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/security-and-compliance-center/.
I also wanted to iterate that Flow and PowerApps always run in the context of a user, and they don't allow users to do anything that was beyond their reach previously. Savvy users today can use other third party automation solutions, or create code that will do the things that Flow and PowerApps can help them do without the data controls that Flow and PowerApps allow. It's true that under the trial licenses users can try out different features of Flow and PowerApps such as creating their own environments, but they would not be able to access other environments (including the default environment) like tenant administrators can, and their environments will expire after the trial period.
The presence of Flow and PowerApps licenses for users is not checked by SharePoint UI. So the buttons will be visible regardless of the state of licenses for a given user.
We want to find a healthy balance between helping you control your data, and providing your end users tools they can use to get work done without having to resort to non-compliant tools. We still think graduating these features out of preview is the correct thing to do here.
Our plan remains to start rolling this change out to First Release tenants by November 13, and then to Production tenants in two waves on November 27, and December 4th.
11-07-2017 03:26 PM
Hi @Paul Alvarez, Flow launch panel changes have been released to First Release tenants last week.
11-08-2017 05:15 PM
11-10-2017 02:21 PM
Hi @Shobhit Acharya, we would love to understand the problems you mention below better. Some comments:
Happy to set up some time to talk about the issues to understand it in more detail, but they should be addressable with what we have today.
11-10-2017 02:40 PM
11-14-2017 05:16 PM
We have rolled this change out to our First Release tenants earlier today.
Next, we plan to roll out to Production tenants in two waves on November 27, and December 4th.
11-15-2017 01:41 PM
should I being seeing this in mt First release tenant? I'm not seeing it at this stage.
11-15-2017 01:43 PM
Hi @Stephen Vidulich, yes, it should be visible if you are not in a sovereign or government cloud. Make sure you have a First Release tenant, and not just First Release users.
Could you send me a private message with your tenant details so we can investigate?
11-15-2017 04:57 PM - edited 11-15-2017 04:58 PM
Thanks for your response @Kerem Yuceturk. What's the plan on dealing with Global companies that have employee's in Germany and China since we can't turn the license off?
11-16-2017 02:51 AM
I would like to know if we set the list /library experience to classic in the list or library settings would I still be able to see the Flow and PowerApps button in the SharePoint list/library despite of the preview feature being enforced now ? Could you please confirm .
11-17-2017 09:41 AM
11-17-2017 12:30 PM
Hi @Tami Shaw, the data sovereignty guarantees only apply to tenants who are housed in those sovereign environments. When you have a tenant that's not in one of the sovereign environments, your users, including those in China or Germany, will use the same data centers that the rest of your users will use, depending on the country picked while creating your Office 365 tenancy. This is true for any Office 365 workload like Exchange and SharePoint, as well as for PowerApps and Flow. So this should not be a new concern for you.
11-17-2017 12:33 PM
Hi @Trevor Seward, Office 365 administrators can go to Flow and PowerApps admin centers, and can set data policies for the default environment, without requiring a P2 license. You do not need any additional licenses.
You could get P2 licenses to be able to create and manage additional environments, and set policies in those additional environments.
11-17-2017 12:34 PM
Hi @Kerem Yuceturk - it is a new concern because we're able to manage everything by permissions or by licensing.
11-17-2017 12:41 PM
I see, but today your mailboxes, documents, and other data still resides in US, if you have a US based tenant, regardless of permissions or licenses. Is that not correct?
For PowerApps and Flow, it will be the same, the flows and apps you create will reside in the US data centers, similar to the case for your documents.
Maybe I am not fully aware of your configuration, I'd be happy to discuss the details over private messages if you'd like.
11-17-2017 03:03 PM
11-19-2017 05:35 AM
11-19-2017 09:18 PM
Hi @Rob Bowman, I hear your concerns. I will reach out to you, and understand the circumstances for your company better, and see what options are possible and hope to get to a point where the solution is manageable for you as well as us.
11-19-2017 11:05 PM
11-20-2017 09:25 AM
Not at all @Craig White, we would like to understand the specific circumstances of our customers so we can provide a general solution. I'd be happy to reach out to any of you to listen how this might be a problem for your business and what a solution might look like. Please send me a private message if you are interested.
11-21-2017 08:04 AM - edited 11-21-2017 08:05 AM
Hello @Kerem Yuceturk. I still do not see this option in our SP, but our First Release setting are only assigned to me. Does it have to be the entire tenant before we'll see it? If so, if I leave on just me, when will the feature be forced into our tenant?
I'm interested in trying it out.
11-21-2017 08:09 AM
Hi @James Taylor, you are right, this requires the First Release tenant wide setting. The setting is at the tenant level, so we can't enforce it at a per-user level.
11-21-2017 08:15 AM
@Kerem Yuceturk that page also indicates the plan needs to be upgraded. Is this the expected behavior of an E3 license?
11-27-2017 01:48 PM
This change is now rolled out to 50% of production tenants. We will be going to the remaining production tenants next week.
My offer to listen to any concerns around this remains open. Please send me a private message and I can set up a meeting with you or your team.
12-04-2017 03:32 PM
This change is now in effect for all tenants.
Thank you for your feedback around governance features for Flow and PowerApps, we are actively discussing in the product team how to address some of the concerns you have raised. Please do not hesitate to reach out with more feedback.
12-05-2017 09:56 AM
earlier in the thread you stated "PowerApps and Flow both have admin centers that allow O365 admins to go in and see all of the apps and flows in the tenant, as well as take them over as needed when users leave an organization, or under other circumstances. "
I'm certainly not seeing this in our tenant, I have access to the admin centers but don't see any Environments tab and so cannot see environments or flows. I've since seen/worked out that even as a O365 Global Admin I have to have another licence in order to manage the apps and flows.
Why is Flow and PowerApps different from other applications/features in Office 365? I don't need an licence to manage Exchange Online or SharePoint, why do I with these? If you're basically going to force these features on us, which you are with PowerApps forms within lists, then you have to give us the access to be able to manage them without expecting us to pay for the licence to do so!
12-08-2017 09:49 AM
I feel like Microsoft has no clue who all their userbase is. My company is a small company of about 500 people, and we are not a tech-savvy company at all. Releasing flow and powerapps to these users is not beneficial to my company in any way. It clutters up the list experience with things that will only confuse my users. Powerapps and flows should be created by developers and power users, I do not see the need to show these ESPECIALLY when the user does not even have a license. This is the largest overstep I've seen Microsoft make in recent years. I opened up a support ticket and was told after 4 days that this is 'by design'. Come on!