04-13-2019 12:44 AM
04-13-2019 12:44 AM
Please, don't think me arrogant or pompous if I speak candidly, but, I feel this needs to be said. I read through the comments in here. SO much repeats what's missing. And, yes, there is heaps missing. BUT... that, actually, misses the point or points to the larger point that is being missed... Talking about the thing as if it is a finished piece of work. It isn't, at all. All the missing stuff is known and coming. It's not productive to say, "This stinks", when 'this' is a little kid becoming an adult. We are supposed to be helping it grow into the adult we can admire; as opposed to finding fault w/ the adult the little kid has not YET become. The challenge is to know what is timely to discuss (or critique) and what comments are pre-mature, untimely & pretty much misguided or misapplied. Anyway, don't lose sight of the fact that this is not a finished product we are viewing & discussing. It oft seems people are talking as if it is and that is counter-productive. We want what we have, NOW, in Edge. Fine to have something technicly good whilst not loosing features & functionality we, already, like & use. Most Folks likely agree, add good stuff, but, don't toss any good stuff, either.
We are, actually, in a fairly early development stage w/ this. The missing stuff is blatantly obvious or conspicuous by its absence. We all know what those things are; so does the Build Team. We should, mostly, forcus on what we see, at any given moment along the way and beyond that, have patience Grasshopper 🦗... frustrating as that may be ;)
PS: Here there is Bold & Italic, but, no Underline. However, if you do want to underline something here, highlight it & hit Ctrl+u :smiling_face_with_smiling_eyes:
04-13-2019 05:18 AM
@Drew1903 says "All the missing stuff is known and coming."
It would be helpful if MS would post a list of planned improvements/changes and prominently post the list (or a link to the list) in the right sidebar to this forum. Those of us who are testing Edge Chromium are in the dark at this point. We have no idea whatsoever what is, and what is not, planned for the release version. So we have no basis for commenting only on improvements/changes that are not already planned for the release version.
Again, quoting you: "The challenge is to know what is timely to discuss (or critique) and what comments are pre-mature, untimely & pretty much misguided or misapplied. "
Well, yes, but at present we have no way of knowing what is "timely to discuss" and what is "pre-mature, untimlely and pretty much misguided or misapplied" without more information about what is and what is not planned for the release version.
You are saying that many of us are wasting your time when we comment on this or that feature/missing element already planned for the release version. That's true. But think about the reverse: We are commenting about those things because we don't know what is, and what is not, planned, that that is wasting our time.
04-13-2019 06:27 AM
That was precisely & exactly the point. You omitted my, also, saying the frustrating challenge is, indeed, not knowing, really. We are being told it is 'all' coming, but, yes, all is rather vague and who knows when, not us. Completely agree a list of what's coming (& isn't, for that matter) and a rough timeline so (you're right) we are running blind... and not knowing whether some thought is valid or another "Coming soon".
Certainly, not suggesting anyone is wasting my time! But, certainly I am/was trying to put things in perspective, but, implying Folks should just wait & see is, to your point, a might silly or unfair... especially, as you say, AND I AGREE, we are stumbling about in the dark.
I support your request for a list. Would be insightful & we'd be more enlightened in regard to what comments make sense, in reference to what & when.
Too bad to be misconstrued whilst meaning to be empathetic. Here's something supposed to be new & improved & we all see major bits missing. Was trying to say, hold on, it's not done, firstly & secondly, apparently, if we sit tight and in good faith, the stuff is coming. But, yes, we deserve better or more than that... such as the list you suggest.
PS: I swear I talk better than I type; not misunderstood... well, less, anyway ;) LOL
04-13-2019 07:02 AM
@Drew1903 I's sorry that I didn't understand the thrust of your post.
Let's hope that the Edge Insider team makes three changes: (1) posts the list of planned changes/improvements in the release version, (2) posts changelogs when updated versions are released, and (3) issues "test this, test that" direction from the Build Team.
I am a volunteer build tester for a Linux distro that was developed from the ground up (not a Debian/Ubuntu derivative), and I am used to having both a "planned changes" list and a changelog, along with "test this, test that" direction from the development team from time to time, as each iteration is released for testing. When I was a participant in the W10 1809 Insider process, we didn't get much in the way of "planned features" or changelogs, but we got clear direction to "test this, test that" during "Bug Bash" weeks.
I don't see how we can be of much assistance in the Edge Chromium project without those basics.
04-13-2019 07:53 AM - edited 04-13-2019 07:58 AM
OMG, do I ever agree AND empathise w/ you, Tom and I'll tell you why...
I am a Windows Insider, have been since day 1, so to speak. We have some direction in the letters from the WIP Team Announcing Build xxxxxx when new Builds come. And, the Quests in Feedback Hub. Other than that & Bug Bashes, is the communication via Twitter w/ the WIP Team, & other Win Insiders. But, more than this, Win 10 is the 4th OS I have beta tested for MS. The 1st was Vista. There is a huge difference and change in approach from the MO back then. It was very much along the tri-component concept you articulated. We Beta Testers, actually, met w/ the Build Team weekly via webcasts such that we TALKED. Discussing likes/dislikes, worked/broken, changes done AND what was coming... what we had to work on or address for & until next time... our focused tasks, our homework. We had had to apply & be accepted to be Beta Testers, was not known, offered or available to the public. I was invited back for 7 & invited back for 8. Finally, I started w/ 10 way before it was released. The approach 'package' we are discussing AND advocating I suggest skewed (no offence to anyone) when the betas started going to the public. In a way it was a good thing because it spawned WIP. But, it has taken the 'intimacy' away and certainly, any verbal exchange w/ MS or Build Teams. Although, I will say, to the contrary, I am a Bing Insider and that does meet monthly for verbal conversation using the Teams App. Also, I can further relate & support what you say... I am, also, an Office Insider and yes, you're flying on your own... besides dedicated forums, in a nutshell, it's take what you see & give feedback.
The caveats you & I are putting forth would make our time & effort much more efficient and productive. Heaps less guess-work, too! ... ie: Keep receiving updates in Canary, but, alas, have no clue or listing of what they included. Ergo, I'm having heaps of tidious fun poking all around trying see if I can discern anything new or different... in other words, on what am I supposed to give feedback... :crystal_ball: <-- we don't have one!!!
PS: My name is Drew. Drew1903 is a User name. Y'all can call me Drew since it's my name :smiling_face_with_smiling_eyes: You (only) need '@' to put tweets to the right person ;) And since here is not Twitter...
04-13-2019 08:54 AM
I too think it would be very helpful if MS gave us some direction on what to test, but right now I think we are doing exactly what they want us to do; Try everything and ensure basic functionality. MS did rip out and change many default things about chromium, and likely want us to ensure they didn't break anything major, that's why we have no specific test intructions.
Also, the whats new page has a list of things that are coming soon. I wouldn't call it a roadmap, but atleast we have an idea of what will be coming.
04-13-2019 09:42 PM
Thank you @Drew1903. Well said. I'm loving the new Edge. It's much more polished and snappy than I'd anticipated at this early stage. Super promising. It's quickly bringing together for me other great MS app/tools I've been ignoring too. I went the entire day today in this version without opening my previous browser.
04-14-2019 09:36 AM