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How about Base Sets for keyboard shortcuts that are further customizable?

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utkangezer
Occasional Contributor

The idea is very similar to what we have in some games. VSCode is similar, too, but not exactly what I mean here. Here's what I expect to have from the users' perspective:

  1. Download the New Microsoft Edge using a (a) Microsoft Edge, (b) Mozilla Firefox, (c) Google Chrome, (d) Safari, ...
  2. On the first run, at the top of the initial welcome page, I see a fancy "Shortcuts for the browser has been set to match the ones in (a/b/c/d/...) for you to feel at home."
    1. Perhaps another line saying "Want to use the shortcut layout from another browser?" with a drop-down right next to it for me to choose.
    2. Perhaps one more saying "Or perhaps customize them altogether?" with a button to take me to the View/Edit Keyboard Shortcuts page in the Settings.

The difference of VSCode is at that it offers this via Extensions, which I think is too much of a hassle. Like this, it's more streamlined, offering more of a ready-to-go experience.

 

For this magic to happen, in the background and from the developer perspective, these needs implementing:

  1. A framework in the background for editable keyboard shortcuts. This probably is already there.
  2. A front-end for users to edit the shortcuts.
  3. An extensive table of shortcut-assignable-functions vs major-browsers. Cells should contain which shortcut has been assigned to that function on that browser.
    1. One table per OS, as browsers have different features/shortcuts per OS most of the times.
  4. Installers for each column on those tables.
  5. Detect the OS (already here) and browser used for downloading. Set the HREF of the Download button to download the installer that defaults the base-shortcuts to the respective browser's shortcuts on that OS.

Sensible defaults. Editable to personal preference. Extendable via extensions. Best of every-single-world. You will win the hearts of a bunch with this.

 

If the browser used for downloading is not one that is explored, then fall back to Edge or Chrome or something.

25 Replies
I'm just wondering, what shortcuts are you talking about? a browser is not like a game. at most all you can do with keyboard shortcuts is to switch between tabs or...yup that's it. 99.999% of websites need mouse for interaction.

@HotCakeX well, of course, let me elaborate with some examples (on Windows 10):

 

  • Ctrl + K: Currently mapped to "Search", a reminiscent of Chromium defaults I suppose, while it is "Duplicate Tab" on Old Edge. No shortcut is currently assigned to "Duplicate Tab".
  • Ctrl + I: Does nothing. Opens Favorites in Old Edge.
  • Ctrl + G: Opens search. Does nothing in Old Edge.
  • Ctrl + J: Opens the list of downloads in both. Isn't there a possibility that some wants to have another shortcut for it, perhaps more memorable?
  • Ctrl + Shift + P: Opens native (OS) print-dialogue, instead of the Chromium one. Creates a new InPrivate window on Old Edge and Firefox.
  • Ctrl + Shift + N: Creates an InPrivate window. Does nothing in Old Edge.

 

While a browser is not a game, it surely is a productivity software. Productivity software are adopted by users, if they fit into their workflow and provide more benefit than hassle.

 

Having to re-learn stuff is detrimental, and will be an inconvenience for any user (I'm looking at the InPrivate window example), let alone a power-user. This suggestion is to eliminate that frustration and replace it with a "warm welcome", echoing myself.

You open favorites and then what? you gotta use mouse for faster navigation through favorites, specially when most people have a rather long list.
Ctrl + P is a universal key in literally every program, not just browser, no problem with it.

there is no need to learn anything and no need to add other browsers' stuff to the Microsoft Edge and fill it with useless stuff, specially when other browser vendors are not willing to do the same favor for Microsoft.

a power user can use a mix of voice commands and a good mouse + mouse pad to get things done.
honestly, in all of those examples, using keyboard shortcuts are only half of the work, the other half must be done with the mouse. browsers are meant to be a way to browse websites, websites are the target and last time i checked, all of them need mouse interaction that requires nothing to learn beforehand.

@HotCakeX I see you are a mouse-user. I can empathize with that. There are users out there that prefer to use a mouse less and less. Could you perhaps also try to empathize with them? In exchange, for the very least?

 

Reducing arm movement is markedly more time-efficient, more ergonomic, and is something very common among avid typists/programmers. It may not worth the time for some others, but then some of us go through all the trouble of climbing the steep learning curve of, say, Vim or Emacs. And it really helps. I first learned to touch-type and use Vim because my wrists started to hurt, indicating a carpal tunnel syndrome.

 

Now, this is my honest suggestion, and also a kind request. Please also be kind, and not dismiss it with harsh words, just for not being your personal primary concern.

 

I honestly, sincerely, absolutely do suffer in not being able to duplicate my currently active tab via my keyboard. The best I can do with the keyboard is: CTRL + L -> CTRL + C -> CTRL + T -> CTRL + P -> Enter. That doesn't fit the bill, either, because it doesn't copy the tab's history, just opens the same page on a new tab. Duplication allows you to go back in the duplicated tab, which is something I commonly use the duplication for in the first place.

 

Again @HotCakeX, For the sake of not leaving a misjudgment uncorrected, what I personally am asking for is actually to be able to have the Old Edge shortcuts on the New Edge, not a favor for other browser vendors. As the New Edge currently is, it is inheriting the keyboard shortcuts of Chrome/Chromium, putting an Old Edge user like me in contempt. I was merely being kind and innovative by converting and offering this suggestion not just for my personal selfish needs, but something good for all.

 

I unfortunately have felt an air of hostility in this place... Sad, especially when I was trying to improve something I cared for.

You are talking as if I am the designer of all of the websites in the world.
there is a fact and it is that all websites rely on mouse for user interactions.

Browsers are merely a mean to access the websites on the Internet, they act as a portal. so browsers are not important, the websites are. everything happens in the websites, not the browser.

ergonomic or not, browser shortcuts don't help much. there are few of them that are universal like Home key acts as a go to top button, or CTRL + P is the print button, CTRL + N is new tab button, CTRL + F is the search button. these shortcuts ARE already implemented in the Edge browser and they are universal. so there is no need for change in that area.

almost 90% of user interactions are within the websites they are using, approximately only 10% of the interactions happen with the browser. and only a portion of that small percentage is related to browser shortcuts.
like a user spends 30 mins in a forum or Facebook, then he decides to download something from there or open a new tab, it just happens in a second. now the user has already using the mouse for website interaction, so it's easier to use the same item already in hand to open a new tab instead of letting the mouse go and press the keyboard shortcut and again take the mouse.
again those shortcuts are already implemented and are universal among popular browsers.

@HotCakeX I am having trouble with not having a shortcut key-combination for duplicating my active tab on this New Edge, to the extent that I have gone through the trouble of creating this discussion with thorough examples, motivation, its potential benefits and everything. The experience in this particular aspect is lacking, compared to what was available in the Old Edge.

 

Wondering my use case? Nowadays, I'm looking up a lot of English words from Bing.com. I want to keep an open tab for the words I've looked up for a review afterwards. A new tab, and e.g. "astute mean" brings me to the definition of that word. "Do it again" you might say, but you would be totally missing the point. I want to do it with less keystrokes and perhaps also the way I'm used to for god's sake... CTRL + K for a duplicate of my tab, where the Bing.com's dictionary mode is already active. On that mode, with just one TAB key, I get immediately to the dictionary's input box. Type my next word, "rudimentary" and ENTER, and so on...

 

A lot of pages with a search box, allow you to access that search box as the first thing as you press the TAB key. Wikipedia is one another example.

 

Hell, I just realized that the New Edge is also missing one thing that I have been using CONSTANTLY. CTRL + SHIFT + N to detach the current tab from the window, into a new window. Extremely useful, if you want to have two pages in your view. CTRL + SHIFT + N to detach, WINDOWS + LEFT to snap it to left, ENTER to select the left-behind window which will get snapped to right.

 

I can understand that a prejudiced mouse-frequenter can have a hard time understanding the utility of the particular benefit of keyboard-only navigability. However, everybody should be able to relate with being to do things the way you're accustomed to.

Duplicating an active tab is not a common thing. let's agree on that. 

There are however 2 actions that once you combine together can act like a shortcut.

Try Alt + D to catch the URL from address bar and press Alt + Enter to paste it on a new tab.

so hold Alt and then press " D + Enter "  (while still holding Alt) that can be a duplicate shortcut.


Also there are many extensions for these rare occasions.

for your special use case i recommend bookmarking that Bing website so it takes just a click (Middle Mouse button) to open it on a new tab which you can call it a duplicate of your active tab.

You are calling me names but none of them is true. again it's not my fault that websites on the internet Need mouse for interactions. browser interactions are Very small compared to interactions users have with the actual websites.
for example during your a 1 hour usage time of an internet browser, a user decides to remove tabs from the group and snap them to the sides. alright they can do it by drag and dropping it to the sides. takes 0.5 seconds. that's how Windows GUI is built for after all.

if Microsoft implement every user's shortcut request into this new browser which is rather light weight for now to compete with Chrome, then it would become a bloated browser that nobody wants. users already have a bad view towards Microsoft browsers, Internet explorer or EdgeHTML is called google chrome downloader by some people and so on. so they gotta be careful not to mess it up again. we all want the best for the future of Edge.

by the way I use keyboards only when dealing with Windows server core and other GUI-less stuff so i love both keyboard and mouse.

Your posts have been full of hate, in my opinion. Thank you for ruining this place for me. Best wishes for your life, despite this discourse we had has been unpleasant to me.

 

Edit: Added the parts that are in italics. Sorry for being brief previously.

You mentioned Tab key, yes it's another universal key that can be used to interact with websites. to switch between forms and fields.
but you said in your post that CTRL+J is not memorable enough for you while lots of other browsers use it for the same thing.

Please let's keep it civil and friendly.
it was just a simple debate and normal conversation between 2 people with Different views and all i did was to provide technical reasons against it. it's ok to tell the both sides of the story.

I didn't know I'm not supposed to express my views. must be a new forum rule that i missed hm.

@HotCakeX Lack of compassion, is hate. That is exactly what you are doing. Putting me and my troubles in disdain and negligence.

 

Believe it or not, I just had to use the Duplication feature once again. Vocabulary.com, for some reason, does not allow me to open links in new tabs via a CTRL + CLICK, or a RIGHT CLICK and then the context menu item. I could, however, duplicate the tab, unfortunately having to move my pointer all the way to the top of my browser, RIGHT CLICK and then the context menu item, then move the pointer back to the link I wanted to choose, then CLICK.

 

Believe it or not, you have made me sad when you didn't empathize with my troubles, and went ahead with your comments of indifference against them.

 

I kindly ask you back to be civil and friendly.

@utkangezer 

Hi,

I apologize for the bad experience you have had here.  Please, continue to contribute to & gain insights from the Forum.

Now, to answer your duplication shortcut query.  There are K/B shortcuts for SO many functions including this.  This sequence will Duplicate tab - Alt+D (hold the Alt key down) & Alt+Enter

Cheers,
Drew
thVY64FD02.jpg

First of all that's rude to call people hateful, you said it first and I ignored it and you said it again now. please watch your language. I've been being polite so far.
once again i'm telling you, there are people with difference views in the world, Nothing I did was wrong or unfriendly. it's not even about that, we are talking about Tech, there is Nothing personal here.


To duplicate tabs, Simply right click on the tab and select duplicate. that's it.

there is not a 2 key shortcut for the keyboard equivalent but you can combine 2 things to form a 3 key shortcut for tab duplication. again as i said you can use this:

hold Alt and then press " D + Enter "  (while still holding Alt) that can be a duplicate shortcut.
there are still extensions to help you do it with 2 key shortcuts, extensions are here to help with rare cases, missing features etc that are not commonly used by everyone, that's why they're dropped from the browser.

Think of it as Windows OS. it has some built in features that are used by everyone, but what if someone wants an extra feature? someone has a very specific need and function? for that there are Billions of software that user can install.

 @utkangezer 

To repeat: The K/B shortcut, that already exists, for Duplicate tab is Alt+D-&-Alt+Enter

Cheers,
Drew
thVY64FD02.jpg

@utkangezer 

 

So the topic was about something else but ended up asking for duplication shortcut,
to sum it up there are 3 ways you can do it:

 

1. with mouse: right-click on tab and select duplicate.
2. with keyboard: Hold Alt down while doing it press D + Enter key. first action catches the URL and the other pastes it into a new tab.

3. if 3 key shortcut doesn't work out for you then use extensions.

 

made it colorful as a friendly gesture ;)

 

 

 

 

@Drew1903 This does not duplicate the currently open tab, it re-opens the same address on a new tab. Couple of nuances to indicate the difference:

  1. Tab's history is not duplicated along, so you cannot go back/forward in history since there is none.
  2. Page's scroll position is not duplicated along, so you're back at top.
  3. Contents of the input forms are not duplicated along, they are fresh empty.

 

To me, losing the history is the foremost drawback of this workaround.

 

You may try these while replying to this post and see them for yourself:

  1. Reply
  2. Write something to the message box.
  3. Scroll a little down.
  4. ALT + D, then ALT + ENTER, will open a new tab in which you cannot go back in history, with a message box empty, and scrolled up top. CTRL + W to close.
  5. RIGHT CLICK on the tab and Duplicate, will open a duplicated tab in which you can go back in history, see a message box with all the text you had written so far, and is scrolled to the same position as you were.

 

Thank you for your help @Drew1903! I indeed did not know that you could open the same address on a new tab using ALT + ENTER while the address bar is selected. That might come in handy.

So it sounds like #5 works out for you the way you want, contains history, scroll position, entered texts and everything.

@utkangezer 

You're welcome.  I'm with you on the limitations this has, but, as you say has potential to be handy, still.

You may already know that holding down the back button shows/gives History.

Cheers,
Drew
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@Drew1903 Thank you for your compassion and tips. I hope these missing shortcuts gets addressed sooner or later, but hopefully before the full release.

 

I reflected on my own concern, and tried my best to come up with the most streamlined solution I can think of. Pity that the solution itself has never been discussed; whether it's as smooth and transparent to the uninitiated end-users as I hoped, and if there exists any oversights in the plan. I thought it would be welcoming, hence appealing and captivating the users that will try using the New Edge once it is released. That will be the key to success to any new browser, anyway.

 

Of course, from the sole selfish perspective, I'm just OK with having just about any, true shortcut for the functions that had one on the Old Edge; i.e. Duplicate tab, Move to new window.

 

Thank you again for being friendly, but I suppose I will just hold myself from offering any other suggestions that may come up to my mind, after this experience I had and keep having.

@utkangezer 

It's likely things can & would be better addressed than by you ( or any other visitor) feeling they need to stay mum or away.  I do, still, hope something will change your mind & perception, in the near future & going forward.  One hopes good overshadows bad and things can be such that your experience won't continue to be tainted & the (bad) memory ebbs.  (Certainly) Not, ever, wanted or right for a any person to be driven to feeling like that.  I am sorry you do.

Cheers,
Drew
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@utkangezer 

I'm a long time edge insider user, today i finally decided to create an account here because of a problem i am having with it and it's a great community with helpful suggestions, i have to admit it.
it took me few minutes to read this thread, great suggestions were brought up here also. I could definitely use some.
I have to agree on one thing, when you're encouraging others to be friendly, you have to practice it yourself as well. there are obviously differences of ideas and opinions and it's OK, it's fundamentally needed for every community to thrive. as a stranger who doesn't know anyone here personally, I felt that the word "hateful" is not suitable for this community, member @HotCakeX was showing you her alternative ways and pointed out reasonable facts. member @Drew1903 offered the same alternative way which is good and I personally have been utilizing it. @utkangezer things in internet forums can escalate quickly, it's the best to stay calm.

when I put myself as an edge developer who might review suggestions, i would like to know about pros and cons of a suggestion before integrating it into my project. @utkangezer mentioned the possible pros and @HotCakeX mentioned the possible cons. this is good and necessary. 

 

Have a good day/night everyone!

Jem

Glad to see people are passionate about ideas for Microsoft Edge!

 

As a reminder, while I know differences of opinion can be difficult, as long as they remain constructive, they are helpful for the team. 

 

Please respect differences of opinions without using words like "full of hate," which is a personal attack according to our community guidelines

@Eric StarkerOpinions are usually presented using "I think" language. Only a few (perhaps even none) of the oppositions to the suggestion was laid out using such a language. Instead, they were mostly (perhaps even always) asserted as if they were general, well-known, established facts; or as the opinion of every-single-person, but me.

 

My suggestion got deemed flat out "useless", my needs were called "special", my intents were derailed into a "question"… Truly, I felt attacked, as if an immense hatred was being channeled at me.

 

I am not sure what you were understanding with the phrase "full of hate", however it was nothing else but my critical thinking on the aggressive antagonism targeted at me. I think you might have misunderstood it as "I am full of hate", but no, it was a "your posts are full of hate". I have not felt anything but "sadness" here.

 

If getting the impression that someone is showing less of a criticism and more of a loathing against my suggestion, and then expressing this impression, is considered a personal attack, then I don't know what to say about this. On the contrary, I never intended to be an actor of an attack, but I rather felt like the target of a personal attack, especially when my daily workflow was ridiculed into something uncommon and "special". I literally was saying that I use some of those shortcuts constantly, and those opinions were nothing short of a "you are nobody", yelled at me.

 

I have unsubscribed from this discussion, for that the posted messages are now mostly off-topic. I apologize to whomever that may drop a message apposite to the suggestion, for that I will not see them and reply pronto.

 

Thank you for your time.

None of the things you mentioned here were my intentions or even true. but its alright, i can't control how others think, everyone is Free to Think however they want and i'm Not responsible for that, i'm only responsible for my actions and words and that alone.
again for the last time it was a normal technical debate and i still see No point in making any of it personal. there were no ridicules, no personal attacks, no yelling, no hate, nothing bad from my side.

it saddening for me when i see things get mixed up the way they're not supposed to.

We appreciate everyone's feedback. I'm closing off new replies to this conversation. 

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