Dynamic arrays in Excel

Dynamic arrays in Excel
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 Nov 14 2018
21 Comments (21 New)
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There is a high degree of inconsistency in the translation of the new functions regarding dynamic arrays (will you use dynamiske matrixer or dynamiske matricer in Danish?) in Excel.

 

I know they currently are only available in Beta/Insiders Program but IMHO they need to be addressed before publishing (shown as UK (DK)):

FILTER (FILTER)

I think the function should be named FILTRER in Danish.

UNIQUE (UNIK)

I think the function should be named either 1) UNIKKE (primary suggestion) or 2) ENTYDIGE (secondary suggestion).

 

I’m aware of the use of entydige for unique in Power Query and actually suggest the use of unikke in all cases within Excel and Power Query (PBI/XL) because that is the common data term ie. in SQL etc.

 

Be aware, that the online article names the function ENTYDIGE but shows the UNIK function in the screenshots.

SORT (SORTÉR)

This is the first time I see an accented function name in Excel and strongly suggest that you change this to SORTER (without the accent).

SORTBY (SORTER.EFTER)

This name is actually good, but the online article shows a screenshot with SORTÉR.EFTER (accented) and is kind of strange “translated” in the article like in “Menuen Sorter efter function” and “Funktionen menuen sorter efter”. Rubbish.

SEQENCE (SEKVENS)

Works like a charm. No changes needed.

 

The online article needs review.

SINGLE (ENKEL)

This function should be named ENKELT like in the online article (and not like the screenshots). A single value translates to “en enkelt værdi” and not “en enkel værdi”.

 

The online article refers to ENKEL, ENKELT and SINGLE in random order.

 

Maybe you could just use SINGLE since that is a valid and approved Danish term for a single value – like in singlesculler, singlekultur (but can also mean being single).

RANDARRAY (VILKÅRLIG.MATRIX)

Since RAND and RANDBETWEEN are translated to SLUMP and SLUMPMELLEM I think this function should be translated to SLUMPMATRIX to be consistent with the two other randomizing functions.

 

Be aware, that the name of the function has not been translated but mentions the correct Danish SLUMP function several times and that makes it even more relevant that you change VILKÅRLIG to SLUMP. Since SLUMPMELLEM is without punctuation I also think that SLUMPMATRIX should be without.

Note

You also have to define the term of the spilled range operator (#) – if you read the online article, it is talking about watertight areas and spilled fluids etc. *LOL*

 

Inside Excel, it is called “overløb” which actually is a nice term. But it has absolutely nothing to do with water, fluids and watertight areas! The error code #SPILL! should be translated to #OVERLØB!

 

MT does NOT work in your favor. All the online articles needs human interaction. It is impossible for me to mention all the mistakes in the articles. There are too many.

 

Regards,

Jørgen

Comments
Bronze Contributor

The paragraph spacing is horrible ;)

Microsoft

Hi Jørgen,

 

Thank you very much for your feedback. It's highly appreciated.

First of all, let me just quickly comment on the accented Excel function, "SORTÉR". As this is an imperative verb, we use accents when the imperative verb may otherwise be misunderstood as e.g. a plural noun - as in this case (en sort, flere sorter) - or a present tense verb. :)

But please allow me to escalate this, as there are several issues to address.

 

I will let you know once we have more information.

 

Thanks again.

Kind regards,

Marie

 

 

Microsoft
Status changed to: Duplicate
 
Microsoft
Status changed to: Working on it
 
Bronze Contributor

Hello again Marie

 

Thank you very much for your comment.

 

I have myself reported a lot of missing accents (I think the worst one was Transformer vs. Transformér) but when using FUNCTION names I think they will get a lot of users in trouble and may lead to a lot of function calls not working since people don't notice the small difference between SORTER and SORTÉR when capitalized and will get an error code like #NAVN?.

 

I just checked the French function names and they are all written without any accents ... 

 

When talking about button names, groups etc. I totally agree with you – the name on the command button should be Sortér etc.

 

Kind regards,

Jørgen

Microsoft

HI @Jørgen Koch

Thanks for pointing this out we really appreciate it. The reason you do not see those function names with accents in French Excel is that we got feedback exactly like yours from French Excel experts like yourself. We need to fix this upstream with the Excel Dev and ensure that our translators have this context and understand these are function names should not contain accents. We also need to check these new function names across languages to ensure they do not contain accented characters. It is great to get this feedback early as it is really hard to change them later as we can potentially break existing customers. So thanks so much for pointing these out!

Regards

Staff

 

PS Thanks @Joan Kiehl also for jumping on this to get these addressed early.

 

Bronze Contributor

Hi @Stafford Quaid,

 

Always glad to help ;)

 

Regarding the use of UNIKKE or ENTYDIGE I went into the UI of Excel and saw that in the Advanced Filter dialog box MS always has used entydige for unique.

 

2018-11-15_13-29-36.png

 

If I compare the meanings for entydig and unik in Ordnet I am more and more convinced that UNIKKE is more correct than ENTYDIGE since it refers to returning unique table rows (if you have four completely identical rows the database or advanced filter or the new function will only return one of these—one unique row ().

 

If you look at the quotes for unik regarding use of unikke then I think the answer is given. I know it will be a hassle to correct all occurences of entydige to unikke in Excel, Access (EntydigePoster and EntydigeVærdi for the DISTINCT in SQL) and Power BI, so that may be reason enough to keep ENTYDIGE. It is not bad but UNIKKE is better IMHO.

Bronze Contributor

2018-11-15_21-03-30.png

Found the same dialog box on my Mac ... 

 

2018-11-15_21-09-55.png

And in my old Excel book ...

Microsoft

Hi @Jørgen Koch,

 

So we are currently investigating all the issues pointed out above, and I have a question for you, as a super user of Excel. :)

 

Do you know whether the functions RAND and RANDBETWEEN have been widely used for a long time? I mean have you used them for a long time in both Insider and in general in Excel?

 

I'm asking because as a linguist I find the translation "SLUMP" very colloquial and not a very accurate... And as "RAND" is short for "random", I would actually prefer the translation "vilkårlig". However, as I am not using Excel that often I don't know if the functions are already in use, and if changing these two instead of changing RANDARRAY would only lead to more confusion rather than clarification...

 

Thanks a lot in advance - I really appreciate your take on this! :)

Feel free to answer in Danish, if you like.

 

Kind regards,

Marie

 

 

 

Bronze Contributor

Hej @Joan Kiehl

 

Ja, begge funktioner anvendes ofte i Excel, hvor RAND (SLUMP) har været der siden tidernes morgen og RANDBETWEEN (SLUMPMELLEM) kom i Excel 2007, såvidt jeg husker.

 

Jeg kan godt se, hvad du mener, men tror man skal beholde slumpnavngivningen. Ordet slump  henviser jo til et slumptræf eller et slumptal (sådan taget lidt på slump), og jeg føler ikke ordet vilkårlig tilfører nogen værdi, tværtimod.

 

Et bedre ord rent matematisk er nok tilfældig, men igen – jeg tror ikke det er noget man skal røre ved, da disse funktioner bruges meget i forbindelse med statistik m.v. (der har tidligere dårlig erfaring med tilfælde, hvor "vi" har ændret funktionsnavne, hvilket medførte at mange regneark ikke længere virkede, hvorfor det blev rettet tilbage igen (fx FJERN.OVERFLØDIGE.BLANKE, der blev ændret til TRIM – og så tilbage igen).

 

Tror måske funktionsoversættelsen startede på svensk, hvor det er meget anvendt (slumptal, se fx https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slumptalsgenerator), og det så efterfølgende også er brugt på dansk (søg evt. efter slumptal, og det vælter frem med svenske sider). 

 

Hvis man skifter se ud med da i ovenstående, så havner man på https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilfældighedsgenerator, og tror at man i matematik taler mere  om tilfældige end vilkårlige tal (jeg er ikke den store matematiker, men har søgt en del på internettet).

 

Mit take er altså, at man beholder slumpnavngivningen, og for at være konsekvente derfor også bruger det til SLUMPMATRIX.

 

 

 

 

Bronze Contributor

Se også https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stokastisk_variabel, hvor en random variable oversættes til tilfældighedsvariabel.

 

Microsoft

Hej igen @Jørgen Koch

 

Tusind tak for dit svar. Det var lige præcis dét, jeg havde brug for at vide. :)

For du har nemlig helt ret; det gav store problemer, da vi rettede nogle Excel-funktioner, da det ødelagde funktionaliteten. Men da disse funktioner endnu ikke er udrullet generelt, har vi fået grønt lys til at rette dem.

Så vi ændrer RANDARRAY fra VILKÅRLIG.MATRIX til SLUMPMATRIX uden punktum mellem.

 

Tusind tak, fordi du ville sparre lidt med mig omkring dette. :)

 

Du hører fra os igen, når vi har gennemgået det hele.

 

Venlig hilsen

Marie

 

 

Bronze Contributor

Hej igen

 

Jeg kan med stor fornøjelse se, at I har rettet de fleste funktionsnavne til mine forslag i seneste opdatering.

 

Dog har I beholdt UNIK i stedet for UNIKKE - det går altså ikke ;) Funktionen returnerer ikke en unik værdi, men alle unikke værdier (fx navne fra en elevliste, hvor hvert navn kun vises én gang, selv om der er flere elever, der hedder det samme).

 

Ligeledes vil jeg gerne slå på tromme for, at ENKEL ændres til ENKELT. Der er forskel på at drikke en enkel øl og en enkelt øl. Den enkle øl er nok lidt kedelig, men det håber jeg ikke den enkelte øl er.

 

https://ordnet.dk/ddo/ordbog?query=enkel

https://ordnet.dk/ddo/ordbog?query=enkelt

 

Mange hilsener,

Jørgen

Microsoft

Hej Jørgen

 

Tak for din feedback.

 

Jeg er glad for at høre, at du er glad for at kunne se opdateringerne.

Grunden til, at du endnu ikke kan se nogen ændringer af UNIK og ENKEL, er, at vi stadig arbejder på det. Vi vender tilbage, så snart vi er færdige med alle termerne. :)

 

Venlig hilsen

Marie

Bronze Contributor

Super - tak for svar

 

//Jørgen

Hej @Jørgen Koch

 

Vi arbejder i øjeblikket på problemet med SPILL og har brug for lidt flere oplysninger.

Vi har lokaliseret nogle forekomster, hvor SPILL stod uoversat, men vi vil gerne være sikre på at finde alle. Så kan du være behjælpelig med at oplyse os om "repro steps", altså hvor er du specifikt stødt på uoversatte forekomster af SPILL i softwaren? Hvilke trin skal vi følge for at tjekke efter uoversatte forekomster?

Artiklen er blevet sendt til gennemgang, så vi kan få fjernet alt, hvad der har med vand at gøre. :)

 

Venlig hilsen

Marie

Bronze Contributor

SPILL.gif

 

Hej @Marie_Koss_Lundoe

 

Se fx ovenstående - og jeg foreslår blokerende i stedet for obstruerende ...

 

Hilsen

Jørgen

Bronze Contributor

Hej igen @Marie_Koss_Lundoe

 

Jeg klikkede mig lidt længere frem – yderligere kommentarer er nærmest overflødige ;)

 

Der er vist brugt bindestreg i stedet for tankestreg, og så er det vandtæt!

 

Selve hjælpeteksten er nærmest vrøvl, fx vandtætte område, en spildt matrixformel, en stiplet give tilsigtede vandtætte område, fejl floatie, og vælg Marker forhindrer celle mulighed for at gå ... 

 

Onlineartiklerne er ikke opdateret, fx FILTER (nu FILTRER), RANDARRAY (nu SLUMPMATRIX) osv.

 

Linket til #NOSPILL eksisterer ikke – og jeg er ikke sikker på, om fejlmeddelelsen findes i det hele taget?

 

HIR (Human Interaction Required)

 

Anmærkning 2018-12-06 131535.jpgAnmærkning 2018-12-06 131646.jpgAnmærkning 2018-12-06 132146.jpg

Bronze Contributor

Hvis jeg søger på SPILL får jeg ingen hjælp, men søger jeg på OVERLØB, så får jeg lidt hjælp:

 

Anmærkning 2018-12-06 134416.jpg

Hej @Jørgen Koch

 

Tusind tak for dine uddybende kommentarer! Jeg sender dem videre til Tech-teamet, så de kan dobbelttjekke, at vi har fået alle forekomster med.

Hjælpartiklen er sendt til gennemgang, så der burde komme en opdatering til den inden længe...

 

Venlig hilsen

Marie

 

Microsoft
Status changed to: Completed